Rotational Hitting - Steps to Learning

[pgibbons]

After trying to hit with the Lau method last summer (and hitting like an uncoordinated moron), I started researching the internet to see if there was something better.

I read about rotational hitting on this site and others - bought books and videos and I'm finally starting to get it (thanks to everyone here for the help).

I learned very organically though, and I did it in this order:

1) Connection
2) Posture
3) Rotation initiating from torso (still working on this)

With the benefit of hindsight, I think I should have learned it in this order:

1) Posture
2) Rotation from torso
3) Connection

Does this sound right?

[fungo22]

Postureconnectionrotation from the middle

OR

1. Posture/rotation from the middle
2. Posture/connection


As much all at one time as they can stand. But if you have to separate them, posture and rotation can't be separated. In contrast, posture and connection can't either.

[swingbuster]

Glenn

where is the bat position, hand set, hip coil, weight shift,

You think those words PCR are magic? You need to go work a JV team armed with just that. Those might be the broad headings for three pages of applicable text. Then the kids must understand and operationize the text

Nothing wrong with them...but ia it as ALL YOU NEED; THE COMPLETE HITTING GUIDE

At least tell the posters that there is much more to learn.

[Ohfor]

I've heard you've almost pulled the trigger.

Go ahead.....write the check...

Then you can comment about words you understand.

Right now you're saying....."posture, connection, rotation don't work, but I don't know what they are."

[4for4]

Glenn

where is the bat position, hand set, hip coil, weight shift,

You think those words PCR are magic? You need to go work a JV team armed with just that. Those might be the broad headings for three pages of applicable text. Then the kids must understand and operationize the text

Nothing wrong with them...but ia it as ALL YOU NEED; THE COMPLETE HITTING GUIDE

At least tell the posters that there is much more to learn.

Who cares about weight shift? Most kids don't have any idea how to Rotate (R). What they typically do is substitute their lack of understanding of how to (R) with a linear weight shift. That's how they attempt to power their swing. You have to build a foundation to work from. In my view, the number one foundational item must be posture. I think from there all else will flow.

An anecdote. I was working with a 10 y/o on my son's LL team last week. He had his bat vertical, lead arm was low. I was throwing front toss to him. He swung under every pitch by no less than 6". This is where it gets good. I stopped him and had him lift his lead arm so that it was perpendicular to his spine with a bit of a stretch in the lead shoulder/arm and had him push is butt out and tilt (P). Told him from there to just turn into the ball (R). The next five pitches were SCREAMING line drives. I didn't talk to him in any real way about connection. I did tell him to hold the lead arm/bat angle into contact in hopes that he solves some of the connection (C) issues with that thought. In any event, my thought about this kid was that he's very low on the development tree and it needs to stay simple. That simplicity was successful in my view and it put a big huge smile on that kid’s face.

[swingbuster]

Who cares about weight shift?

You will in time. But your starting right with him IMO

Getting you bat in the launch slot giving good results is understandable at his age and any age. Hidding the hands can be a challenge

More advanced swing

http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=284&st=90#entry4067318

Make sure he doesn't collapse his back side ...that is why the weight shift.

http://dmcmillan.topcities.com/berkman.gif

see shift then rotate or PCR excuse me

You will succeed and slump many times before he graduates. Line drives are good. Anyway he can do that stay with it

[4for4]

You will in time. But your starting right with him IMO

Getting you bat in the launch slot giving good results is understandable at his age and any age. Hidding the hands can be a challenge

More advanced swing

http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=284&st=90#entry4067318

Make sure he doesn't collapse his back side ...that is why the weight shift.

http://dmcmillan.topcities.com/berkman.gif

see shift then rotate or PCR excuse me

You will succeed and slump many times before he graduates. Line drives are good. Anyway he can do that stay with it

Buster, my comment wasn't about weight shift per se. I'm not against weight shift. IOW, I'm not saying no stride/no momentum development/transfer is superior. I don't think that at all. I'm for a simple developmental approach that helps kids move to a high level swing. So, when a kid doesn't know how to get into a good posture (P), doesn't know how to connect (C) his hands to his rotation cause he doesn't know how to rotate (R), I'm going to look for a simple way to help get him there. Why build the roof first?

**I should add that not only do kids attempt to power their swing with a linear weight shift, but they also use their hands/arms to do so as well and taking emphasis away from these areas and focusing on the foundational 3 is a far better approach in my experience. You really should buy Steve’s DVD’s.

[jsiggy]

Glenn

where is the bat position, hand set, hip coil, weight shift,

You think those words PCR are magic? You need to go work a JV team armed with just that. Those might be the broad headings for three pages of applicable text. Then the kids must understand and operationize the text

Nothing wrong with them...but ia it as ALL YOU NEED; THE COMPLETE HITTING GUIDE

At least tell the posters that there is much more to learn.

The poster asked about proper order of P-R-C. Fungo answered that. Do you even read the questions/responses?

Glenn, help us out here.

[LClifton]

pcr

Siggy,
I know I don't read the questions or the responses for that matter.

I just look at the pictures,

and there are none here.

Can you please post one?

LClifton


1.buy dvd Start with posture, review dvd, 2.then rotate, review dvd,
3.then do it all staying connected, dvd now makes sense, 4.then add weight shift, then dvd is a worthwhile investment. Where's my commission? Or you could switch 2 and 3 or go 2,1,3 or 1, 23 together would be the very best, I'm thinkin', maybe.

Just havin' a little fun.

Mr. Gibbons, I'm putting some pictures together that I think may be of help. My apologies for cuttin' up. It was not helpful to you.

[retkag]

coaching/teaching

Siggy,
1.buy dvd Start with posture, review dvd, 2.then rotate, review dvd,
3.then do it all staying connected, dvd now makes sense, 4.then add weight shift, then dvd is a worthwhile investment. Where's my commission? Or you could switch 2 and 3 or go 2,1,3 or 1, 23 together would be the very best, I'm thinkin', maybe.

IMO I think this is a very good statement, it is the art of coaching. Not all players have the same problems or need the same instruction. You might have a kid who some sense of posture and rotation but can't connect or you might have the other good connection but the rotation breaks down. I think you have to look at the players and work on what needs attention. I am not saying that you don't have to do all of them correctly because we all know that you do.

When we start with our HS team, I tape every kids swing and I look at all of them and I bring in each player to see there swing next to a major leaguer. I pick similar characteristics in both of them. After going through all the players swings I give them drills on a 5x8 card that each player is responsible to do during offensive practice. Are all the drills hitting drills where a player is hitting a ball, sometimes yes and no. Some of them maybe rotation drills, posture drills or a posture rotation drill combined. The point is they are not all doing the same thing because some are better at certain things than others.

I truly believe in the importance of posture connection and rotation, but how you go about teaching each or all of those to an individual is the beauty of teaching hitting.

retkag

[Ohfor]

A great sequence outlined by LClifton.

We started with an understanding of bat perpendicular to spine and rotation from the center.

No matter what we did we treated those concepts as absolutes and used them as a base from which to build.

Our sequence was more like.....

1) Bat perpendicular to spine..... a posture and connection issue
2) Rotation from the center
3) Experiment with arms and hands in stance looking for best possible box
4) Scap load and improved connection
5) Forward by turning to create momentum and the vertical load. (I would put the vertical load much sooner in the learning process when starting with a new kid from scratch. In fact, it would be in step 2. We just didn't learn about it until later.)
6) Continue working to improve each.....posture connection rotation.

By the way, if I were to take over a high school program and needed to develop a hitter or two to improve my 7,8,9 hitters.....the guys who play mainly for defense or they are all you have......I believe I can get those kids very productive in a short time (2 months of work 3 days per week) with #1 and #2. From there, they will improve. But I believe #1 and #2 can make those hitters productive (not great) and efficient while they learn the rest.

[4for4]

Great post retkag. I've found this in working with my own kids. Sometimes the same drill or cue won't have the same result with one as the other. This is what makes Steve so good. He's able to flow through different drills/cues quickly finding the one that gets the best result. That's a great teaching attribute. And you obviously have it as well. Time for you to come to town.

LC, would you slow down a little bit? I'm trying to catch you in number of posts.

[jsiggy]

I know I don't read the questions or the responses for that matter.

I just look at the pictures,

and there are none here.

Can you please post one?

LClifton

Pictures? Indicating the preferred order to teach? Confused.

1.buy dvd Start with posture, review dvd, 2.then rotate, review dvd,
3.then do it all staying connected, dvd now makes sense, 4.then add weight shift, then dvd is a worthwhile investment. Where's my commission? Or you could switch 2 and 3 or go 2,1,3 or 1, 23 together would be the very best, I'm thinkin', maybe.

Nice... this is similar to my experience except replace "review dvd" with "bring Steve up to re-explain".

For me, the sequence depends on where the hitter is at the time. My kid didn't rotate efficiently but did rotate hard and completely. So that was not the place where we started. Instead we worked on the major posture/connection issues. And it made a huge difference rapidly. Next we worked on rotation issues and since then, it's just been revisiting each area (along with others such as weight shift) to reinforce and improve.

On the other hand, recently I've worked with a couple of young kids (8-yr olds). We started with an initial static posture position and then primarily worked on rotation because neither of them could rotate worth crap - they both used weight shift to power their swing. Both are rotating somewhat efficiently now, so we're concentrating on posture/connection.

[LClifton]

sequence

Pictures? Indicating the preferred order to teach? Confused.

Mostly joking.

But, as good as you are with pictures, why not?

Takes me about an hour just to get them to the right KB size to be able to send them.

LClifton

[jsiggy]

...because some are better at certain things than others.

I truly believe in the importance of posture connection and rotation, but how you go about teaching each or all of those to an individual is the beauty of teaching hitting.

retkag

Great points... Wish we encountered more coaches like you along the way. We seem to get the "all kids will do the same drills" coaches.

For some reason, this reminds me of a story. Wondering if anybody else has encountered something like this:

Coach of a team we were playing with last spring is doing hitting drills off a 2x4 board. Soft toss and watching the kids hit. Two kids are falling off the 2x4 on every single swing... my kid and another. The same two are the only two raking the balls. Most of the others rarely hitting the grass... Coach comes up to me after practice and tells me mine and another have balance problems. I smile politely, nod and ask what he thought about her hitting otherwise. He says, he didn't notice, he was only watching for balance in that drill and he wasn't interested in how well they actually hit while performing the drill.

(Sorry for getting off-topic.)