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... Yet even more questions about Rotational Hitting

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  • ... Yet even more questions about Rotational Hitting

    I have been "lurking" on this forum for about a month now, trying to learn all I can about the current theories and techniques regarding Rotational Hitting, including even some of the difficult to comprehend/understand PCR ideas. My son uses what you I guess would call a hybrid Linear/Rotational swing. Some of the hitting problems he encountered the past couple of years (casting, weight too far out front, fast hips, etc.) were somewhat solved by some old school linear teachings(i.e. lead w/ knob of bat, front elbow down, etc.) However, we now want to incorporate more rotational theories into his swing.

    My main question is where is a good place to start? Who's books/DVDs should we start with (Epstein, Yeager, Englishbey, Parker)????? Should I just start simple and go with Epstein's book on hitting?

    A secondary question: I started another thread about my son's recent elbow injury and his current rehab. Based on the fact that he can't swing a bat with both arms currently; does anyone have any good lead-arm/one-arm hitting drills that are good for teaching the rotational techniques?

    Thanks

    Twitch5

  • #2
    I suggest signing up on the free side at Englishbey hitting and read everything there.

    Comment


    • #3
      twitch -

      PCR is like the "modern" 1 plane (Hogan) golf swing pattern where you swing the club by swinging the arms around the body as the body turns. PCR describes this as turning the bat with the shoulders as opposed to more passive shoulder turn in the 2 plane golf swing and mlb swing.

      The trouble with this pattern is that it is too long for the limited reaction time/on the fly adjustment required for hitting/involving too much torque separation. When perfected in golf, you keep the feet flat and restrict hip turn by bending way over as you turn the shoulders back as much as possible.

      In hitting you have to make up for this tendency toward excessive/slow/steady loading/separation by turning the legs out of sequence so the back leg turns into the front which spins the whole bodyfaster which prevents swing quickness and late adjustability that comes with the more 2plane like "stretch and fire" mlb swing. Stretch and fire gives early batspeed and late adjustability. Early batspeed is quick bathead acceleration that starts well back in the swing plane becasue you keep the hands and shoulders back more.

      The best way to figure out the mlb swing is to reconcile several of the best descripitions. Some authors describe some phases better or worse or leave out some phases. The MLB swing pattern is hiomogenous enough for this to work as with the Lau sr/JR "absolutes" weight shift and extension approach which can be reconciled with Williams/Epstein rotational approach and the Yeager ground froce approach and the Mankin torque and chp approach and the Slaught "if you can throw you can hit" approach.

      Some recent approaches emphasize the similarity between throwing and swinging (Dixon/Hodge/early/"pre-PCR" Nyman). Both motions are like separate upper and lower body motions which are synched, just like the 2 plane golf swing where the arms move up and down as the hips turn the body back and forth.

      Jeff Hodge (BIOMECHANICBASEBALL) explains throwing in a way that allows understanding how the upepr and lower motions are synch/timed.

      Mankin's work (torque/chp) shows how the hands torquing the handle are the means/locus of this control.

      it is very important in my opinion to teach throwing and swinging together to get the best result.

      Being familiar with golf is a big bonus.

      "swinging down" is a fine cue for both 2 plane golf and for the MLB swing.
      Last edited by tom.guerry; 03-07-2008, 05:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would urge you to consider starting with the Epstein DVD's. They include simple drills that will teach the core movements of the swing. Many here will debate more "advanced" details and skills but every young player needs to master some basic core movements and in my opinion nothing does that better then the simple drills on the Epstein DVD's. Also the drills in the DVD's are done with a modified wiffle ball bat which allows for many more swings while reducing the stress on young joints. The first book I would read would be "The Science of Hitting" by Ted Williams, about $10.00 at Amazon.com and it will be the best $10.00 you will spend. I also would encourage you to go the Englishbey free site. Lots of good information, different focus, different drills then Epstein. Remember through all the discussions (arguements?) on this site and others, it is just a bunch of guys that are passionate about getting it right for the kids.
        Good Luck, read and study everything you can get your hands on and always keep an open mind.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would listen to every word Tom Guerry every says about hitting... ever!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kevkey View Post
            I would urge you to consider starting with the Epstein DVD's. They include simple drills that will teach the core movements of the swing. Many here will debate more "advanced" details and skills but every young player needs to master some basic core movements and in my opinion nothing does that better then the simple drills on the Epstein DVD's. Also the drills in the DVD's are done with a modified wiffle ball bat which allows for many more swings while reducing the stress on young joints. The first book I would read would be "The Science of Hitting" by Ted Williams, about $10.00 at Amazon.com and it will be the best $10.00 you will spend. I also would encourage you to go the Englishbey free site. Lots of good information, different focus, different drills then Epstein. Remember through all the discussions (arguements?) on this site and others, it is just a bunch of guys that are passionate about getting it right for the kids.
            Good Luck, read and study everything you can get your hands on and always keep an open mind.
            KevKey,
            Could not agree more. This material has gotten my son back to the beautiful swing he was born with albeit with a few tweaks to eliminate bat drag.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 1chapterahead View Post
              KevKey,
              Could not agree more. This material has gotten my son back to the beautiful swing he was born with albeit with a few tweaks to eliminate bat drag.
              It doesn't always do this... its a very mechanical swing... its a good starter though.

              Comment


              • #8
                Connor

                I agree that the Epstein swing is mechanical. I believe that when teaching hitting to young kids (I coach primiarily 9 - 11 boys and girls) it is critical to focus on what Dr. Coop DeRenne calls the 4 BioMechanical Absolutes.
                1. Dynamic Balance
                2. Kinetic Link - sequential transfer of energy from the legs and trunk to the arms and bat.
                3. Bat Lag - hands and bat lag back while body rotates
                4. Axis of Rotation - the imaginary, vertical line around which the body rotates during the swing.

                I think the Epstein DVD's address these 4 absolutes with simple drills that are superior to anything else comercially available on the market.
                Mechanical--yes, Absolutes--YES.

                As an aside I follow your quest for knowledge and improvement with great interst. You (and your parents) should be proud of the effort you have put into understanding baseball. If you do not have Dr. ReRenne's book or DVD I would strongly encourage you to add it to your study.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Epstein's vids

                  I noticed that Epstein has a few videos. Which one would you recommend if only buying one of them?

                  Coach W

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Go Cardinals View Post
                    It doesn't always do this... its a very mechanical swing... its a good starter though.
                    GC,
                    That's probably a fair statement for some... Larry Bird was very mechanical in everything he did; I guess sometimes being mechanical is all you can ask for. Others are able to wrap their athleticism around and embrace the movements as their own. I guess my son is fortunate in that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Coach

                      For just drills I would suggest both the Torque Drill DVD and the Numbers Drill DVD. If only one I would have to say the Torque Drill.
                      My recommendation would be to go to his site and consider the package deal for his DVD's

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Twitch5 View Post
                        A secondary question: I started another thread about my son's recent elbow injury and his current rehab. Based on the fact that he can't swing a bat with both arms currently; does anyone have any good lead-arm/one-arm hitting drills that are good for teaching the rotational techniques?
                        Anyone have any ideas for some good lead-arm/one-arm drills? Still looking...
                        On the flipside; does anyone think it would be detrimental to have him do tee and soft-toss drills just using his lead arm?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Twitch5 View Post
                          Anyone have any ideas for some good lead-arm/one-arm drills? Still looking...
                          On the flipside; does anyone think it would be detrimental to have him do tee and soft-toss drills just using his lead arm?
                          Twitch,
                          Lead arm drillls with a little tension in the elbow (constant bend) while hitting a heavy bag are a great drill for being short to the ball.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Rudy Jaramillo's has some one handed drills on his DVD. Depending on the age of your son I would be reluctant to do one handed drills with his regular bat. Preston Peavy has some one handed drills using a small bat.
                            However not sure one handed drills is something I would do. Could be it is just rest that his body needs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              very good set of drills can be downloaded for a fee from peavynet.com

                              http://peavynet.com/stepbystepsales.htm

                              peavy is a very good instructor with an approach very similar to Lau Jr.
                              Last edited by tom.guerry; 03-08-2008, 10:32 PM.

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