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  • #16
    Originally posted by fastbal95 View Post
    Can be applied to both.
    Fastball,

    When you warm up, do you also throw in this pronated manner?

    Comment


    • #17
      I'm working exclusively with 5-7 year olds so I'm dealing with this a lot. Here are some things I teach/look for in that age range:

      1. Feet and shoulders should begin parallel to the direction of the throw. In my opinion, this is the only thing you need to worry about with very young kids (i.e., 5-6 years old). They don't have the coordination or the strength to use proper mechanics otherwise, but if their feet and shoulders are parallel the rest will eventually fall into place as they grow and mature. Having them point with the glove or glove-side elbow is a good cue. Some people say "point with the foot" as well, but I don't like this because I think it promotes a stiff-legged stride (see #3).

      2. Shoulders should remain parallel to the ground throughout the throw. A lot of young/inexperienced players will "rear back" and lower their back shoulder, which causes the ball to sail. I've had success telling kids to "keep the ball low, like a laser beam" (telling them to keep their shoulders parallel to the ground will obviously just confuse them). They need to understand that it's preferable for the ball to hit the ground than to sail high - at least then the receiver has a chance to catch it or knock it down.

      3. A good throw uses the entire body. They should bend their knees, and feel the weight on the back leg. A lax, "arm-y" throw or a stiff-legged stride are indicators that the legs aren't being properly incorporated into the throwing motion. I wouldn't worry about this until 7 or so, depending on the kid's ability and athleticism. Most of the time, just remind them to bend the back knee slightly as they stride and this will take care of it.

      4. Momentum is key. The player's momentum should be directed towards the target. Don't just pick up your foot and whip your arm around, stride towards the target. For more advanced players, have them take a shuffle step so their body is moving in the direction of the target when they make the throw. This will improve both velocity and accuracy. Again, this is something to incorporate when they're a little older (7+). Watch a good shortstop or 3rd baseman making the throw to first and you'll see what I'm talking about.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jesse View Post
        2. Shoulders should remain parallel to the ground throughout the throw.
        I don't think this is good advice because it forces everyone to throw sidearm.

        I find that it's easier for most people to be accurate from a higher arm slot.


        Originally posted by Jesse View Post
        3. A good throw uses the entire body.
        Starting out sideways to the target accomplishes most of this.
        Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

        I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

        Comment


        • #19
          ok guys thanks for the responses, have'nt had a chance to go threw them yet. i should have told you but a little embarassed, my son is 14 a good player in limited comp. he's played mostly travel basketball until lately. but he always played baseball when season came around. its just in a poorly( but i take all the heat i should have taught him) run LL system he became most coaches 1st baseman which he loves but never really had to make many throws. last fall new coaches played outfield,his arm is good but no confidence so he often tosses it from the outfield instead of gunning it for fear of going off target. dirtyberry your advice is good but illustrastion would be helpful. and the word PRONATE is thrown around like baseballs but with no clear explanation of excalty you do it, "see how clemens pronates his fastball" but only in the know pepole can tell him from a minor leauger.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by fastbal95 View Post
            Lets see Jima,

            Dirt posts something and then I say that it sounds about right to me.

            THEN, you post something sarcastic about how Dirt, nailed it on the head. Again, you with sarcasm and uneeded comments.

            The APPpitch comes on here and belittles what Dirt has said and my comments about agreeing with what Dirt has said.

            I posted nothing sarcastic or demeaning UNTIL you and APPpitch feel the need to diminish what Dirt, or what I have said.

            Ive said before, I give as much respect as I, or others that are sharing Doc's information on here, are given. You want respect, then you should give it when responding to someone's comments.

            That the vast majority of "baseball" people have no idea what Dirt is talking about, shows how little the "vast" majority of baseball people know. NOTHING. Randy, regionman, has come on here to tell you guys his story, about how he didnt believe it either, UNTIL he tried using Doc's stuff. And now he is able to throw hundreds of BP pitchers everyday, and his son has tramatically improved since switching to using Doc's stuff. Dirtberry has a similar story. He didnt believe either until HE TRIED IT. Yet, you guys on here refuse to believe anything they say. You guys are so ignorant that you dont even know your ignorant. That or you are too scared to try it for yourself. You are exactly where they were before they tried it.

            You are right, I dont care what you think, because you dont know anything about pitching. There is no problem with my pitching career. Its happening exactly as it is supposed to.

            I am very capable of having a civil discussion, with people who dont belittle or use sarcastic comments to diminish what others are saying on here. I do not start these "fights". I will however respond in fashion to what I feel is a slight to somone trying to explain how to eliminate pitching arm injuries using Mike Marshall's program, especially coming from someone who does not have a clue, let alone a PhD in exercise physiology and kinesiology to go along with a 14 year major league career and a Cy Young award.
            Well, I guess I am a mind reader. Thanks for proving correct.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by frank400 View Post
              Hey everyone-- i found a great website that's got a lot of info on youth baseball coaching tips, www.teachyourkidbaseball.com. There are sections working with a variety of different kinds of kids (the klutz, the natural athlete, the lefty, etc) and tips on training the batter, pitchers, and fielders. check this out for info on throwing: http://www.teachyourkidbaseball.com/index.html#A17 (I realize it's for pitching, but you might find some helpful tips too!) I've found some really helpful tips and ideas in here that I've been able to take back to my team that I coach. Enjoy! :cap:
              Thank you Frank. You are the most generous person I've ever encountered online. You've made the effort to join two websites today just to share this incredible information you stumbled over. What a guy!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by frank400 View Post
                Hey everyone-- i found a great website that's got a lot of info on youth baseball coaching tips, www.teachyourkidbaseball.com. There are sections working with a variety of different kinds of kids (the klutz, the natural athlete, the lefty, etc) and tips on training the batter, pitchers, and fielders. check this out for info on throwing: http://www.teachyourkidbaseball.com/index.html#A17 (I realize it's for pitching, but you might find some helpful tips too!) I've found some really helpful tips and ideas in here that I've been able to take back to my team that I coach. Enjoy! :cap:
                Hi Frank, some great info here. I would respectfully disagree however - teaching pitching and throwing online is very possible using high speed film.
                Last edited by Jake Patterson; 03-09-2008, 06:13 PM.
                "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
                  Thank you Frank. You are the most generous person I've ever encountered online. You've made the effort to join two websites today just to share this incredible information you stumbled over. What a guy!
                  The information on the website is minimal with respect to throwing and terrible with respect to hitting.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                    I don't think this is good advice because it forces everyone to throw sidearm.

                    I find that it's easier for most people to be accurate from a higher arm slot.
                    Are you saying it's necessary to drop the back shoulder below parallel in order to throw from a high arm slot? Did you misunderstand what I was saying?

                    Edited to add: Here's some video of a kid pitching and throwing overhand and sidearm. Notice how his shoulders stay relatively level either way.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N89_p7R_m4Y

                    2nd Edit: I think I see where the confusion is. I'm not talking about the front/gs shoulder dipping as the arm comes through, I'm talking about the back shoulder dipping during the windup. Here's a video - check out the pitch around the 00:57 mark. His back shoulder drops slightly, and the ball sails. It's almost like a shot put motion. Fairly common in kids that age.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S40Gx...eature=related
                    Last edited by Jesse; 03-09-2008, 08:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jesse View Post
                      2nd Edit: I think I see where the confusion is. I'm not talking about the front/gs shoulder dipping as the arm comes through, I'm talking about the back shoulder dipping during the windup. Here's a video - check out the pitch around the 00:57 mark. His back shoulder drops slightly, and the ball sails. It's almost like a shot put motion. Fairly common in kids that age.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S40Gx...eature=related
                      His back shoulder doesn't drop enough to be meaningful.

                      This is just a little kid. Too little to be pitching. He looks maybe 6 or 7 and just is not strong enough to throw well.

                      Also, many pro pitchers drop their back shoulders and do just fine. You could even argue that dropping the back shoulder is a good thing because it gives the arm time to get up into the high-cocked position.
                      Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                      I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TLO03 View Post
                        hey guys could you point me in the direction of some good info on this subject. just the basics
                        TL,
                        I am guessing that you are just trying to develop a decent throwing motion with kids that are just learning the game…

                        Having gone through this with my son’s teams and most recently with my seven year old daughter I have found the best approach is…

                        1. Line them up so they are sideways or inline with their target.
                        2. Have them aim their glove at their target while extending the ball out away from the target.
                        3. As they begin to throw have them bring their glove into their chest.

                        I have found this to work very well with young children or children that may not have shown any interest in learning how to throw a ball when they were younger.

                        Don’t ask much more of them and after awhile you should have a decent foundation to build on.
                        Coop

                        Don't forget to swing hard, in case you hit the ball. ~Woodie Held

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Appitch,

                          I have 8 year olds who understand these principles, remember these little kids learn faster than us mere older guys. I think if you really tried even you could teach from the little I wrote.

                          LABall,

                          You should see the way my pitchers who also play in the field throw including Catchers. Their fastball style throws can travel slightly to the left, straight or right depending on the type needed to each bag or plate.

                          Jesse,

                          Nice post. I have all my 5 and ups learn how to walk through their throws, this is critical to get right before they go out and play in any competition. It is difficult for most but they do get it.

                          Hey that little guys got a future, has he got an advisor?

                          TLO03,

                          Like I said the details are also free and if you go and learn the terminology and exercise physiology and kinesiology and motor skill acquisition knowledge that is there you will do your child even at 15 the greatest service.

                          Chris,

                          Would the “high-cocked position” be the “high guard position” the “Goal post position”,. at initial forward force application.
                          Primum non nocere

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post
                            Chris,

                            Would the “high-cocked position” be the “high guard position” the “Goal post position”,. at initial forward force application.
                            I'm talking about this moment...

                            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Chris,

                              Do you have any slow motion or high speed film of Maddux throwing in pro ball?

                              Maddux limits his driveline because of what this picture shows, his grab. His grab is when he brings the ball closer to his head instead of leaving it back. When he starts his acceleration, his forearm "bounces" which causes the ball to not move forward at all or even move backwards in some cases. This also shortens the length which Maddox has to apply force, ie shortening his driveline.

                              Maddux is a great pitcher in spite of this, not because of this, IMO.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Maddox also tools along at about 90% effort not Maximal.

                                Chris, for the record, do you think Marshall has it right or wrong about forearm bounce causing UCL retrograde?
                                Primum non nocere

                                Comment

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