Discipline: To run or not to run?

[jbolt_2000]

- Little League - 9-10 age group -


I used to believe that when a player messes around a goofs off that they should run to burn off that extra energy and get focused on playing. In other words, make them run as a form of discipline for screwing around.

Over the last year or so, I have been reading and learning that running should be made fun and not as punishment. Mainly so that the child doesn't see running as a negative and is encouraged to run for fitness and/or conditioning.

I believe in this message and do not want them to be turned off on running and encourage them to run for fun/exercise. I have had my team now for four weeks and they only run during warm-ups, conditioning, and base-running drills. The problem I have is that there seems to be no discipline with the team. They are constantly bickering with each other (calling names, criticizing on missed plays, etc.). We had a scrimmage last night and my coaches and I were constantly telling them to get focused, get in the game, stop playing in the dugout, etc...

I take full responsibility for this and know that this is also part of being a 9 and 10 year old. But what do I do now that it has gotten out of hand? Do I begin making them run when they get out of line? Are constant wind sprints in the future for my team? Should I have done something different from day one? And most of all; is running as discipline actually good for them???

There was another team playing after our scrimmage last night and I asked the coach how he got all his kids to line up on the fence and watch the game instead of playing around in the dugout. He simply said three words "Make 'em run!" And that was that.

What do I do?

[Jake Patterson]

- Little League - 9-10 age group -


I used to believe that when a player messes around a goofs off that they should run to burn off that extra energy and get focused on playing. In other words, make them run as a form of discipline for screwing around.

Over the last year or so, I have been reading and learning that running should be made fun and not as punishment. Mainly so that the child doesn't see running as a negative and is encouraged to run for fitness and/or conditioning.

I believe in this message and do not want them to be turned off on running and encourage them to run for fun/exercise. I have had my team now for four weeks and they only run during warm-ups, conditioning, and base-running drills. The problem I have is that there seems to be no discipline with the team. They are constantly bickering with each other (calling names, criticizing on missed plays, etc.). We had a scrimmage last night and my coaches and I were constantly telling them to get focused, get in the game, stop playing in the dugout, etc...

I take full responsibility for this and know that this is also part of being a 9 and 10 year old. But what do I do now that it has gotten out of hand? Do I begin making them run when they get out of line? Are constant wind sprints in the future for my team? Should I have done something different from day one? And most of all; is running as discipline actually good for them???

There was another team playing after our scrimmage last night and I asked the coach how he got all his kids to line up on the fence and watch the game instead of playing around in the dugout. He simply said three words "Make 'em run!" And that was that.

What do I do?

I used to believe the same. What I have found is that running is part of the game and the players should recognize it as such. Why would we use batting, practice for instance, as punishment- we wouldn't. While I still use running ti re-focus the players I use 4-bag base running versus laps- we may as well learn something while we run.

The most effective "punishment" I have found is have the player simply sit. "Hey Bobby if you're not interested in what we're talking about then why don't you go sit in the dugout. No sense us both wasting our time." Usually only takes one time and the problem is solved.

[Baseball gLove]

I used to believe the same. What I have found is that running is part of the game and the players should recognize it as such. Why would we use batting, practice for instance, as punishment- we wouldn't. While I still use running ti re-focus the players I use 4-bag base running versus laps- we may as well learn something while we run.

The most effective "punishment" I have found is have the player simply sit. "Hey Bobby if you're not interested in what we're talking about then why don't you go sit in the dugout. No sense us both wasting our time." Usually only takes one time and the problem is solved.

Sitting or timeout does not work for my 8 year old. Fortunately/Unfortunately, my 8 year old has an active imagination and would be content to entertain himself with imaginary action figures. So we have him do push ups.

He had a good day yesterday 1 for 2 with a 2 run double. He K'd swinging with deadly intent at a belt high fastball. As he walked back to the dugout, he imagined he was a big leaguer carrying his bat back holding it by the barrel.

[Jake Patterson]

Sitting or timeout does not work for my 8 year old. Fortunately/Unfortunately, my 8 year old has an active imagination and would be content to entertain himself with imaginary action figures. So we have him do push ups.

Admittedly my suggestion assumes the players want to be there. Sometimes an 8yo would rather play with imaginary action figures.

[jneas]

I coached 9's last year and would use the 'fence and back' on occasion for those who were disrupting practice. One particular practice a kid was right on the border of disrupting things for about half the practice, and, when I finally said 'Johnny, to the fence,' his response was 'It's about time!!!'

On a more serious note - some dugout antics are to be expected (they are kids), but I'd nip the bickering in the bud. During one of our early games, a number of our kids were bickering with each other and making comments about the umpire. So, after the game,
we had a team meeting on the field where I explained, very seriously, that their attitude and actions were unacceptable - I placed a heavy emphasis on respect -
for the game, for the umpires, for the coaches, and for each other. We never had the problem again (well, at least, not to the same degree).

[TL_Dad]

My youngest son (just turned 8) he also plays basketball. He does'nt like either and our basketball coach does both. He makes them run suicides or has them sit down.

I coach 8-9 yo this year I also use both.

I coached the 13-14 yo last year and running works really good on the older kids.

[jbolt_2000]

Thanks guys!!!

The most effective "punishment" I have found is have the player simply sit. "Hey Bobby if you're not interested in what we're talking about then why don't you go sit in the dugout. No sense us both wasting our time." Usually only takes one time and the problem is solved.

I like your wording here especially. I think it gets the point across. I thought about having them sit when they mess around, but there are a few kids (maybe 3-4) that would probably enjoy that more than playing. Not much you can do about that I suppose.

I think I may have the start with a run to the fence or something small, just to get the point across. If that doesn't work then have them sit. And still if that is not working then ask them to take a while and think about if they truly want to play or not because at this point they are just wasting everyone's time to learn and get better.

I like it when my kids line the fence, but I don't insist on it.

I wasn't going to insist on it at first either. In last night's scrimmage I asked the kids to just stay on the closer half of the dugout so they can see the action better. Well it turned into about half the kids watching the game another few spitting seeds at eachother on the bench, one player just sitting staring at his feet the whole time, and then 2-3 talking to their parents or friends walking by.

I think I may have to insist on this just to show them that I am serious with their focus.

I don't have the kids run. Instead, I act real stern for the first half of the first practice. I tell the kids I'm the grouchiest coach in town, but always looking to smile if they respect the game, each other, and myself.

I've tried this and it doesn't seem to work with the kids this year. It is like they get it for a few minutes and then go right back to their old ways.


Tomorrow is the last practice before opening day. I am going to have a player/parent meeting to discuss everything and I am going to let them know that it is no longer Mr. Nice-Guy. I want the parents to realize why I am going to be harder (if only for a little while until the kids get the point) and explain proper conduct in the dugout and at practice. No more playing around, no more parents talking to their kids during the games (unless absolutely necessary) and no more discrespect of the coaches and other players.

I did go over this in my initial player/parent meeting 4 weeks ago, but it doesn't seem to have sunk in.

I will also be talking to my coaches and insist that they get control of the kids as well. Especially if I am coaching third base or helping outside of the dugout.

[Go Cardinals]

I had a coach once that if you didn't do exactly what he said right away (he was wrong and he wouldn't remember what he said), then he would get into these "tantrums"... Here is how it worked... you could say that he hated me. He wanted his son to do all of the work... but guess who did it? (I hit 3 homers in 3 straight at-bats. The first two were on the first pitch of the game. All three were slashes)... anyway, I am inserting my ID here over my name... he never called me GC...

He would say, "GC, hit your god mother cut off man. Who the do you think you are. If you don't, I want you to get the of my team. Your ing useless!" Something on those lines. Then he next broke a his wood bat on the ground that he was hitting fly balls to us with. He goes to the dugout and he gets a metal bat. He said that I better hit my cut this time...

***Read next post... too many smilies lol***

[Go Cardinals]

Next time... grounder... I hit my cut. He says...

"AAHHHH you! Throw it all the way. God ing it! ! you ing suck! ! !"

Then he slammed the metal bat against the pole on the fence by home plate. He put a huuuuge dent into the bat.

Some other practice, I remember playing over the line. I had hit over 16 homeruns in a row (this is majors LL all-stars). All of my hits were crushed. Half were oppo too! So, at first, he starts throwing as absolutely hard as he can! He Threw GASSS from 40 ft away. I had to swing at every pitch. Boom, out of the park every single time! My teamates were hitting bombs too... not as many as me, but we as a team had over 20 homers in a row at one point! He then throws curves... I hit every pitch out of the park... never missed one. Man, you think this impress a coach? Nope... he then made up a rule that home runs don't count anymore... No joke...


So, as you can tell... we never messed around with him... (actually, I was dumb and immature at the time. I argued and back talked him too much). Basically though, the moral is (from a players perspective), the best way my teammates and I have ever been motivated was when our favorite coach just simply says, "If you guys don't care thats fine. Its your choice." If we were bad... practice wouldn't go as long. Or he would just not do his part, since we weren't doing ours. This worked well, but we were very motivated to get better. Best coach I've ever had... to bad he doesn't know how to teach it though. He'll go out and give you free lessons. As long as you want it, he'll do it for you.

[Go Cardinals]

By the way... I found out later (just this year) that he had a drinking "problem". Apparently!

[Jake Patterson]

Sorry Connor, the coach sounds like a moron.
jake

[Go Cardinals]

Sorry Connor, the coach sounds like a moron.
jake

I've moved on... this was 3 years ago...

Just hope you guys remember to be their friends... I'm sure you do, but that makes the experience sooo much better!

[Jake Patterson]

I've moved on... this was 3 years ago...

Just hope you guys remember to be their friends... I'm sure you do, but that makes the experience sooo much better!

An old coach told me you can be their friend or you can be their coach. You can't be both. I have found the latter to be more effective for the players than the former when done properly.

[jbolt_2000]

Update -

OK so I had practice yesterday at 5:00pm. The kids slowly made there way to the field between 4:50 and 5:00. As with most daysd, they started grabbing a ball and partner and proceeded to play catch before warming up. I usually don't mind this as long as it is easy throwing. They get bored while waiting for practice to start so I prefer this over them trying to hit balls.

Anyways, as they began I calmly told them to put the balls away and sit down until everyone showed up. They did as they were told. I think that even though I was calm they realized that I was upset.

They all showed up, save for a few that couldn't make it that day and I started my talk with, "We are going to take the next few minutes to discuss the behavior of the team over the last four weeks." They really opened their eyes at that time and it told me that they really did not have a clue how they were acting inappropriately (which also told me that I was not enforcing my behavior rules well enough). So I spent the next few minutes going over how they were disrespectful to eachother, the coaches and their parents. I explained my "Play H.A.R.D." moto again to them (Hustle, Attitude, Respect, Determination). I gave specific examples of each kid's disrespect, without naming names because they know who they are and didn't want to single anyone out. I explained to the coache's kids that they were teammates, no more no less, just because they are the coache's sons does not give them any more privledges than the others.

After I gave all my examples of how they have been misbehaving I clearly defined that the next few minutes they would running because of this. And I specifically pointed out that it had nothing to do with how good/bad we played the scrimmage the night before. It was 100% because of behavior. I am sure they understood.

So I did not over do it, but I had them stretch out and then place their gloves in a row 60 feet away (this is the distance between bases for us). I then had them run wind sprints to their gloves and back to the starting line. I had them run it six times. Each time I explained why they were running. The first was for overal bad behavior and not showing that they wanted to play. The next four were for each of my "Play H.A.R.D." definitions. And the last was for their parents and I explained that their parents paid good money for them to play baseball and learn the game and they are wasting it away on messing around.

I went over my rules one more time, trying not to be overbearing (just two minutes of what and why we just did what we did). I then had them play catch and warm up. I let them throw on their own for a minute and began to see them lose a little focus. Not messing around, but clearly not trying their hardest. So I began to count out loud for every ball I see sail over a kids head or a missed catch that was clearly an easy catch. Once I got to about 5, the kids asked why I was counting and I said that I am counting for every bad throw that is made and every easy catch that is dropped. I did not tell them they were going to run that many laps but they figured it out.

I finally reached 15 and told them to come in. I explained again that they had better take my speech seriously or they will not be playing. I told them that if they don't want to play that they can leave and let another kid join our team that wants to play but can't becaause the roster is too full.

I had them run to the fence and back.

From there I sat them down again and told them that there will be a zero tolorence rule in effect. Any messing around and I will make them run. They will either run as a team, as a small group if its just a few kids messing around, or as an individual. If running does not straighten them out I will ask them to sit and watch. And if that doesn't work I will give them my cell phone and ask them to call their mom to pick them up. If it happens in a game I will ask them to sit in the bleachers.

They understood.

At this point It had been about 30 minutes in to practice and I felt I had lectured them for at least 10-15 minutes of that time and did not want to over do it. We then began batting practice and I told them that they would be playing tee ball until they can show me that they wanted to play for real. We set up the tee and proceeded to play.

Once we started, you could feel the difference. The kids ran to their spots, they did not complain, they focused and if someone was in the wrong spot the other team members helped him get to the right position in the proper tone.

We played this for about another 30 minutes and within that time there were three instances where the kids got a little bored (which I expected them to) and they started making silly noises or whatever, just something to entertain themselves. Each time I sent the individual to the fence and back. It stopped after that. Once we finished tee ball I sent them all to the fence one more time and explained that if they are now ready to play real baseball they would run to the fence and back within 30 seconds to prove it...They did.

We then had about 45 minutes left so I had a soft toss game with all the kids on the field and one batter at a time. They played like they really wanted to be out there. No bickering, no complaing, no horse playing, nothing. They just played baseball.

After all that I had them run the bases for base running practice and one player missed the bag at one point. I lined them up one last time and explained that if you miss the bag it is because you are not paying attention to what you are doing and hurting the team and yourself with this action. I made them all run the bases one more time and they made sure not to miss the bag at all.

Practice was now over and I told them all to sit down with their parents and tell them what I said and what happened at practice. I also explained that at our next parent meeting (hopefully tonight if it doesnt rain) that I will be going over this with them as well.

I believe they all got the point. I think it worked very well and I do not expect to do this much more. I will still give them a little room to mess up, since they are only 9-10, but I did not tell them that.

I think we are going to be alright now .... I hope

[Williamsburg2599]

Is this Rec League or "All stars"?