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  • Radar Guns in Youth Sports

    This is the time of year where we have an increasing number of coaches and dads comparing speeds of young hurlers, old discussions included youngsters as young as 8 y/o. Here's an article I wrote several years ago...Enjoy!

    PITCHING SAFETY
    Radar Guns Have No Place In Youth Baseball

    By: Jake Patterson
    June 2006

    The proliferated use of radar guns, radar buckets, glove speed devises, and other speed detection devises in youth baseball has medical and baseball youth pitching experts extremely concerned, and for good reason. More and more children are ending their baseball careers prematurely because of preventable arm injuries due to poor skill development and the rising emphasis on speed. Many coaching and physical therapist professionals even go as far as calling parents who buy them irresponsible. In a rush to buy the latest technology, parents are endangering their children.

    Not long ago the use of guns was restricted to the college and pro ranks. As the prices of radar guns came down they quickly made there way into the high school and American Legion level and then to premier youth travel teams. New inexpensive guns have allowed more and more parents and youth coaches to purchase the guns and they are now being unwisely used on children as young as eight years old, typically by over zealous parents who think Little Johnny is the next Curt Schilling. .

    The problem, say experts is that when guns are used speed becomes the emphasis and not technique. Coaches educated in proper techniques and arm safety are concerned seeing radar guns at a Little League, middle school or other youth league practices and games. Many feel they have no place there and are typically used by unqualified parents and untrained coaches. They can only result in damaged arms.

    Dick Mills, former pitcher for the Boston Red Sox and long time pitching coach states, “The point is - when working with pitchers who are growing and developing the main focus must be on skill development, not velocity since velocity will be determined by the stages of growth and development. It really doesn't matter how fast a youth pitcher pitches since that is no indication of how he will pitch in the future. Hard throwers at the Little League level will not necessarily throw hard when they get to high school. Late developers with better skills will normally bypass the early developers.”
    The Scripps Howard News Service says the gun is in their top five risk factors that cause damage to young arms that can lead to Tommy John (surgery). Their articles, Facts on Tommy John Surgery published May 25, 2006 states, “Pitchers need to focus on learning how to pitch rather than throwing as hard as possible.”

    And if that wasn’t enough warning, in an interview conducted by Medscape Orthopaedics and Sports Medicine, Dr. James Andrews chairman and medical director of the American Sports Medicine Institute (ASMI) was asked “What are the key risk factors for (youth baseball) injuries?” Part of his answer included, “The third risk factor -- believe it or not -- is the radar gun. There's so much emphasis now on velocity and throwing hard that these kids are hurting their elbows and their shoulders because they're trying to throw a 90-mile-per-hour fastball. There's too much emphasis on the radar gun and not nearly enough emphasis (as my good friend Hank Aaron with the Atlanta Braves has preached for years) on learning how to pitch safely. The safest throws for young kids to learn is strikes, as well as how to pitch around a batter. You need to decrease the importance of radar guns, or outlaw their use in high school and younger baseball events.” And Dr. Andrews should know. He is known throughout the baseball world as the leading surgeon for Tommy John Surgery.

    If a child throws 55 MPH versus 50 MPH, who cares? Speed is no indication of how good a young pitcher is or will become nor will it help his skill development. Being able to throw properly and hitting spots in the strike zone is what makes a good young pitchers become viable potentials as they age. The game has too many unnecessary arm injuries. Children don’t biologically mature until they are in their late teens and too often trained coaches see parent after parent treating their twelve-year-old sons like they are seasoned twenty year olds. This past season, one dad in Northeast Connecticut brought a radar gun to a Little League practice. All he accomplished in doing was creating a, “Who can out throw who,” free-for-all. It didn’t stop until a local high school coach stepped in and stopped the lunacy.

    What is a radar gun?
    A radar gun is a measurement devise that tracks the speed of the ball in miles per hour (MPH). Sources disagree on when they were first used in the pros, but most agree it was sometime during the 1970’s. RADAR stands for Radio Detection and Ranging. The devise operates by transmitting radio waves that reflect off objects. A measurable frequency change occurs which when measured can be converted into miles per hour.

    Who should use a radar gun?
    College and pro scouts, when scouting potential players use radar guns. They allow the scouts to track pitchers and compare them against a large pool of other potential players across the country and world. The guns however, are just a piece of the scouting process. They are used in conjunction with other scouting tools such as pitch variety and accuracy analysis and are typically used to scout high school seniors and college players in their late teens or early twenties.

    Others who have a legitimate reason to use radar guns are college and pro pitching coaches to track relative improvement and benchmark pitchers and their individual pitches. In this particular capacity they can be used as a training aid.

    Few experienced high school coaches use a gun. They can recognize pitching problems and determine corrective action without the use of a gun. Knowing how fast a pitcher is pitching poorly brings no value to the training process.
    The last category is competition analysis. College coaches and professional coaches use guns to track their competitors. In a “winning is the priority” environment they seek every advantage they can to win a game, but this particular use should be restricted to the college, championship ball and the professional ranks.

    Recommendations
    First and foremost, parents have to accept the fact that they have the primary responsibility for their child’s safety. They must not assume their son’s coach knows what he is doing. Many Little League and youth coaches are untrained volunteers who simply do the best they can. Many know little about teaching proper throwing mechanics or skill development. Learn what you can about basic baseball techniques. A motivated parent and their child learning together is truly the best learning combination. If you see an untrained coach using a gun on your child, or using improper throwing techniques, stop it immediately. Don’t sit back worrying about whether or not you are going to hurt the coach’s feelings. When your child’s safety is at risk – take charge.

    The question of how much training a volunteer coach should have is asked a thousand times worldwide during every Little League season. The answer is simple - just because you are a volunteer coach, it does not relinquish your responsibility to the players you coach to do the job properly. Go and educate yourself. How to throw properly is not an easy skill to teach. There are many great programs out there available in book, video and DVD form that teach proper fundamentals. Other resources can include your local middle school and high school coaches, local clinics, baseball websites, or local baseball companies. The Internet has plethora of material available.
    Finally, to all the parents who thought buying a radar gun was a good idea the advice is simple. Throw it away - Buy a book not a gun.

    If you need additional information contact me at [email protected]


    References

    ASMI. (March 16, 2006). “I’m Going to Alabama to See Dr. Andrews,” Part 2: An Expert Interview With James Andrews, MD. Retrieved July 9, 2006 from: www.asmi.org

    Mills, Dick. (July 23, 2006). Email correspondence: Pitching Speeds in Youth Baseball. www.pitching.com

    Scripps Howard News Service. (May 25, 2005). Facts on Tommy John Surgery. Retrieved July 7, 2006 from: http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story...5-25-05&cat=LS)

    Copyright © 2006 J. Patterson
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

  • #2
    Here's a look at how one pro team is looking differently at guns: http://www.ideachampions.com/weblogs...uring_up.shtml
    www.rpmpitching.com

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    • #3
      A radar gun is just a tool to be used or misused. It's not the devil. The problem is in the common use. Education not hyperventilation.

      Comment


      • #4
        The problem is too many inexperiened youth coaches use it like the radar gun at fair. "Step right up! How high can you make the number go?"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mark H View Post
          A radar gun is just a tool to be used or misused. It's not the devil. The problem is in the common use. Education not hyperventilation.
          While I agree with the spirit of this post I don not agree with it's practicality. We all know that guns in general result in the abuse of arms. I won't allow a dad to come to a game with one.

          Say nothing... put a gun on the plate and see what happens.
          "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
          - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with both Mark and Jake in their points. However, the overriding factors cause me to say get rid of them.

            Mark...if someone is going to use a gun what do you think is the proper way to go about it. We're talking youth baseball here, let's say pre high school.
            www.rpmpitching.com

            Comment


            • #7
              One top 13U program recently had a practice last week where all of their kids were clocked on the gun. One of the dad's said they ranged from the mid seventies to as high as 81 - wether you agree or disagree the gun is used in a lot of programs these days.
              "Tip it and rip it" - In Memory of Dmac
              "Hit the inside seam" - In Memory of Swingbuster

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Coach45 View Post
                Here's a look at how one pro team is looking differently at guns: http://www.ideachampions.com/weblogs...uring_up.shtml
                So this is why the Royals are terrible!

                j/k

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wrstdude View Post
                  So this is why the Royals are terrible!
                  Perhaps, but I am willing to guess that Hoyt Wilhelm and Whitey Ford know something about pitching and getting batters out. I saw Luke Hochevar pitch a couple years back at UT. In that game the thing that impressed me most was the ~ 20 mph difference in his fastball and curveball. The opposing pitcher had an ~8 mph difference in his two pitches. Needless to say, Luke was un-hittable that day.
                  Have Fun and Play Hard!

                  Chuck Faulkner
                  Tazewell TN 37879
                  The Glove Medic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by glovemedic View Post
                    Perhaps, but I am willing to guess that Hoyt Wilhelm and Whitey Ford know something about pitching and getting batters out. I saw Luke Hochevar pitch a couple years back at UT. In that game the thing that impressed me most was the ~ 20 mph difference in his fastball and curveball. The opposing pitcher had an ~8 mph difference in his two pitches. Needless to say, Luke was un-hittable that day.
                    j/k = just kidding

                    So that means what I typed was a joke.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stealth View Post
                      One top 13U program recently had a practice last week where all of their kids were clocked on the gun. One of the dad's said they ranged from the mid seventies to as high as 81 - wether you agree or disagree the gun is used in a lot of programs these days.
                      As we know there is a lot in baseball that is done that does not have the player's best intrest in mind. This would be one of those blantant items. Any youth coach who feels this is a good thing should not be coaching youth ball.
                      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I just watch pitcher throw there arms out if they don't know how to use a gun.

                        drill
                        Yogi Berra was asked by a reporter "How do you catch a knuckle ball?" He came right back and said "When it stops rolling"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Coach45 View Post
                          I agree with both Mark and Jake in their points. However, the overriding factors cause me to say get rid of them.

                          Mark...if someone is going to use a gun what do you think is the proper way to go about it. We're talking youth baseball here, let's say pre high school.
                          Sorry to be so long replying but practice, a flight to Vegas, $100 donated to the Bally hold'em tables in return for a few hours of entertainment, a full day on my feet at the Con Agg show and watching a double header with a couple of kids finally beginning to understand how to "get a good pitch to hit" has intervened.

                          The short answer is immediate objective feedback. During the period when a kid is trying to learn to use his body to throw the @#$% out of the ball how does he know what different things/feels he tries work and which don't in terms of velocity/efficiency? What it felt like to him? No, that sure won't work. More likely the opposite. Bucket dad or buddy on the receiving end guessing at the velocity? Good luck. No, rather than trot the gun out there once in awhile during that period, have it out there all the time. Then it's not a novelty that causes the kid to do something stupid but rather just more, and much better, information about what works with the likely result that he figures out muscling up doesn't work. That's all it is. Just information. The reaction to a gun coming out is like the reaction to a girl showing up at the boy's school. They all lose their minds. If the girls were around all the time, then it's not really a big deal and the boys find out if they don't go nuts and start acting stupid they do better with both the girls and their throwing velocity. Developing deception, command etc is obviously critical but another subject.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                            Sorry to be so long replying but practice, a flight to Vegas, $100 donated to the Bally hold'em tables in return for a few hours of entertainment, a full day on my feet at the Con Agg show and watching a double header with a couple of kids finally beginning to understand how to "get a good pitch to hit" has intervened.

                            The short answer is immediate objective feedback. During the period when a kid is trying to learn to use his body to throw the @#$% out of the ball how does he know what different things/feels he tries work and which don't in terms of velocity/efficiency? What it felt like to him? No, that sure won't work. More likely the opposite. Bucket dad or buddy on the receiving end guessing at the velocity? Good luck. No, rather than trot the gun out there once in awhile during that period, have it out there all the time. Then it's not a novelty that causes the kid to do something stupid but rather just more, and much better, information about what works with the likely result that he figures out muscling up doesn't work. That's all it is. Just information. The reaction to a gun coming out is like the reaction to a girl showing up at the boy's school. They all lose their minds. If the girls were around all the time, then it's not really a big deal and the boys find out if they don't go nuts and start acting stupid they do better with both the girls and their throwing velocity. Developing deception, command etc is obviously critical but another subject.
                            Mark, I would believe you would have no problem descerning appropriate and non-appropriate use. The problem is the average coach does not. If he is not coupling gun use with techniques and by this I mean injurious free throwing then it can only be a recipe for disaster. Not much different than giving a loaded gun to someone who has no clue - I have an old Army story about the city giy who shot the instructor in the foot. Funny stuff- definately inappropriate use of a gun... or maybe not.
                            "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                            - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                            Comment

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