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Dealing With Problem Coaches

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  • Chris O'Leary
    replied
    Originally posted by bbb3601 View Post
    Most of my knowledge I have picked up on this site over the years. My son's coach go's on and on about rotational hitting. Then he spends 30 minutes talking about " squishing the bug" To the average parent what makes this the wrong thing to do? Also is it wrong to use bit's from two different types of swing's? For the most part he leaves my kid alone because all of you helped me fix his swing last year, but I have always wondered about the deeper issue of the bug squishing! Any insight would be nice!
    Squishing the bug is better than a dead lower half, but it limits the force with which your hips can rotate.

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  • bbb3601
    replied
    Most of my knowledge I have picked up on this site over the years. My son's coach go's on and on about rotational hitting. Then he spends 30 minutes talking about " squishing the bug" To the average parent what makes this the wrong thing to do? Also is it wrong to use bit's from two different types of swing's? For the most part he leaves my kid alone because all of you helped me fix his swing last year, but I have always wondered about the deeper issue of the bug squishing! Any insight would be nice!

    Leave a comment:


  • Go Cardinals
    replied
    Originally posted by Drill View Post
    Tell the player to tell the coach that he is working on it. Just don't tell him what


    drill
    That's what I do... after every at-bat or swing in BP I go up to the coach and say, "is that better?" He says some answer... maybe it is, or maybe it isn't... He's says... "Yeah some of them..."

    At first... then I realized it was good advice, so I listened... nice guy...

    Leave a comment:


  • Drill
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    I agree that this approach works if the coach tells you to do something...

    1. But doesn't check to see if you are actually doing it.
    2. Is simply happy with the results.

    But what do you do if the coach tells you to do something (stupid) and then checks to make sure you are actually doing that (stupid) thing?

    The coach of the guy I am working with looks at videos and stills and, when he sees a player tilting over the plate (which we know is good), gets all over him and tells him that he needs to level out his swing.

    In other words, what do you do with a coach who insists on fixing something that clearly isn't broken because he thinks that your swing won't scale (when in truth it's his ideas that won't scale).

    If he does look at video of his players, it might help to show him video of pros doing things like tilting over the plate.
    Tell the player to tell the coach that he is working on it. Just don't tell him what


    drill

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris O'Leary
    replied
    Originally posted by LAball View Post
    Maybe the coach will pick up the hint, or at least now you have a private coach that says, Dont squish the bug and dont level out.
    Interesting idea.

    I know it works with me sometimes.

    I have some kids on my son's team who have private instructors who teach the level swing and extension at the point of contact. I tend to leave the kids alone because I don't want to confuse them or shake their confidence. I just hope that they don't do what they are taught.

    I still haven't figured out how to tell a parent that their expensive private hitting (or pitching) instructor doesn't know what he's talking about.

    The only time I am not afraid to intervene is when a pitching instructor tells a kid to do something that is dangerous.

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  • LAball
    replied
    Try a curve. Work up a good conversation with him, a joke, then a small complement, then Tell him that,
    "I've worked many years on my son's swing. Laid some cash for private lessons( even if this is untrue ). Do you think that my son could benefit from some EXTRA hitting lesson?"

    Maybe the coach will pick up the hint, or at least now you have a private coach that says, Dont squish the bug and dont level out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris O'Leary
    replied
    Originally posted by korp View Post
    Most coaches don't pay too close attention especially if you say you are working on it.
    I think this is probably true maybe 80 to 90 percent of the time.

    That probably makes the say "Yes sir" but do your own thing strategy the place to start.

    I guess I am afraid of trying to educate coaches (who haven't expressed doubts about their ideas), because I have seen it fail so many times

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  • Chris O'Leary
    replied
    Originally posted by LClifton View Post
    He was taking BP and I filmed him. He can hit.
    Sent him the clip.
    What he did (in his swing) and what he was telling them to do were pretty far apart.
    His instruction (cues) have changed.
    Does anyone have any clips that they found particularly enlightening when it comes to communicating the truth about swinging level and squishing the bug?

    Here are some tilt stills that I have collected and that helped to open my eyes...

    - Tilt Pics

    This one of Edmonds is one of my current favorites...



    I remember that this pic gave me an aha moment...



    This Adam Dunn clip is also a classic...



    When it comes to squishing the bug, here are some photos that opened my eyes...

    - Squishing The Bug

    Does it make sense to direct the coach to these pages?

    Do you find them to be persuasive?

    Leave a comment:


  • korp
    replied
    I had this problem last year ... coaches will believe they are right no matter what and want credit lots of times for what you do. I would say just tell him you are working on it blah blah blah but do it the way we all know is correct. The problem is either one the coach is unwilling to change his teachings or two doesn't know the swing has changed. The first is no fun but coaches who are willing to change will be the best in the long run. Most coaches don't pay too close attention especially if you say you are working on it.

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  • CoachB25
    replied
    Mark, I can't argue those points!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark H
    replied
    It's a sticky problem. Assuming no other problems with the kid and assuming the coach IS teaching goofy things about swinging a bat, what then? It IS a sticky problem. Haven't seen or heard of it being handled any better than LC did. Usuallly doesn't work out that well. DD was forced to whack down on the ball with one of those double tees every day in college practice. Spent individual time away from practice to undo it. Honestly, my gut is, the number of coaches with your understanding of the swing is vastly outweighed by those on the other end of the bell curve but that's just based on my experience. IME, knowing what you are doing when coaching hitting is THE biggest area where an advantage can be gained on the competition. ULL being a case in point.
    Last edited by Mark H; 03-19-2008, 02:57 PM. Reason: addition

    Leave a comment:


  • CoachB25
    replied
    I typed about a half a page response to this but it would not serve any positive purpose. Besides, I'm crabby today. Some things to think about:
    • What really happens in practice!
    • Is the individual "coachable?"
    • What do we know about the coaches in all of these scenerios? Are they as dumb as at least one poster in another thread has indicated?
    • Does, being a "teacher" mean you can't coach?
    • Are the various players involved defensive liabilities?
    • Do some mistake "hustle" for work? In other words, I've coached a lot of guys that "hustled" when the coaches were watching. When they thought that the coaches weren't watching, they were lazy. How about my adage, "Groups of 3 get away from me!" I've always taught that if you are standing in a group, you are not working.
    • What are the intangiables we aren't hearing about? Rolling the eyes? Looking away when coached? Remember, affect screams!


    Loren, I do admire your story! To me you made your point, provided a service to the team, and helped everyone including the coach.

    I guess some coaches are dumb enough to tell a kid to do this or that, have the kid acknowledge and then have them still do their own gig. For all of the advice on ignoring the coach, I'd warn that some coaches operate under the adage "Attention to Detail is EVERYTHING." If so, they will instantly notice and the young lad will get a chance to do the pine time. Before anyone thinks me the hypocrite, yes, I've told my girl to be so good that no one will want to change her. However, I've also told her that I don't write out the starting lineup and if her coach told her to bake cookies, she'd better warm up the oven if she wants to play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark H
    replied
    Originally posted by LClifton View Post
    Yes,,,he is very likely to start to see things.

    Happened with the High School baseball coach where my daughter goes.

    I sent him about 3 different clips to show him what I was working on with one of his players'. Seemed to make sense to him.
    Got permission to come out and video the team.
    Not to prove anything just to send them to him.

    He was taking BP and I filmed him. He can hit.
    Sent him the clip.
    What he did (in his swing) and what he was telling them to do were pretty far apart.
    His instruction (cues) have changed.

    I encourage you or anyone to get as involved as you can.
    Obviously, there are times where it just won't be well received.

    My approach was in the vein of trying to help.
    "I said, I'll shoot some video and e-mail the clips to you, if you'd like."
    As Bm said, "like a gift"....only this one wasn't anonymous.
    Well done. An impressive success story.

    Leave a comment:


  • kylebee
    replied
    Chris,

    As a coach, I worry that parents and kids think I am wrong when I teach them rotational hitting concepts and instead prefer level swings/squish the bug type actions. I know it's not terribly related, but it gives you some perspective on parents in general.

    Leave a comment:


  • LClifton
    replied
    Originally posted by Bm
    If he sees enough of them, he's liable to start some discovery of his own......
    Yes,,,he is very likely to start to see things.

    Happened with the High School baseball coach where my daughter goes.

    I sent him about 3 different clips to show him what I was working on with one of his players'. Seemed to make sense to him.
    Got permission to come out and video the team.
    Not to prove anything just to send them to him.

    He was taking BP and I filmed him. He can hit.
    Sent him the clip.
    What he did (in his swing) and what he was telling them to do were pretty far apart.
    His instruction (cues) have changed.

    I encourage you or anyone to get as involved as you can.
    Obviously, there are times where it just won't be well received.

    My approach was in the vein of trying to help.
    "I said, I'll shoot some video and e-mail the clips to you, if you'd like."
    As Bm said, "like a gift"....only this one wasn't anonymous.
    Last edited by LClifton; 03-19-2008, 09:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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