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  • Throwing mechanics tips?

    Hi,

    My son Kevin is 13 yrs od., ~5'1" and ~105 lbs. Two years ago, while pitching during a preseason scrimmage, he suffered an avulsion fracture in his throwing elbow's growth plate, as well as a partial tear in the MCL. After not pitching at all that whole year and doing some physical therapy over the winter, he came back for his 12YO LL year and pitched very well and w/ no pain in the elbow area.

    Last fall, he moved up to the big field. He pitched a little there and is obviously going to take awhile to get used to the longer throws all over the field.

    I'm much more comfortable/experienced coaching hitting, but I'd like to do what I can to help him make his arm a weapon and not a liability. Personally, I'd rather he just stopped pitching and focused on positions. But he likes it AND he throws strikes (plus a nice changeup).

    I left a bunch of throws in these clips, so you can really see what he's doing, rather than me trying to pick one throw from each angle, and possibly hiding some details. My wife filmed from 3 angles, so hopefully there's enough. Note: he's only thrown a 1/2 dozen times or so this year. And a few days prior to this, he was feeling some soreness in his elbow. So he might've been a bit tentative today. He's certainly not trying to throw anywhere near 100%, probably closer to 75-80%.

    What do I see?

    Good: arm action/angles/height at footplant seems ok.

    Bad: from there, no glove-side arm action (it just flops out of the way) and not much hip power. I would think we'd want to see his right leg come around a lot more and more forcefully. It's almost like he stops w/ his body and just pushes w/ his arm?

    Today tho, we played catch again and I had him focus on really cranking his hips through just before his stride finished. We noticed that his first few throws like this were high and seemed to have more oomph. He felt like he wasn't really trying to throw harder, like his arm wasn't being stressed, yet his throws seemed to have more on 'em, just from adding some conscious hip rotation.

    Anyway, I have my reservations about what I might glean from posting this, and I'm certainly not looking for yet another [tired] Marshallite vs. the rest of the world debate. But I'd appreciate suggestions for improvement - if that's possible w/o launching THE eternal online debate?

    Thank you.

    http://members.cox.net/sandmanbaseba...20throwing.mp4
    http://members.cox.net/sandmanbaseba...20throwing.wmv

    Please let me know if most folks would rather view the mp4 or wmv format, so I can remove the less-desired one from my webspace. Thanks.

  • #2
    I think he needs more seperation between lower and upper body,he needs better hip action ..i know hes just throwing but i would incorporate more leg lift if he were pitching.it will give him more time to work his lower half against his upper half it will give him more time to break and get his arm up. thats why hes throwing high he needs more time..you seem to see the same thing so you are on the right path..he needs to use his body more

    Comment


    • #3
      Mike why does his throwing side leg rotate over his glove side leg?? It almost looks like he's walking away?

      I would also get the glove tucked with a pronated release.
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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      • #4
        Thanks wog. He threw today from close to 120' and had some pop on it w/ no arm pain. Lots more hips seemed to help. I'll try to film again this weekend.

        Jake, I thought he WAS pronating his release?

        Comment


        • #5
          It looks like he doesn't use his lower body enough and then throws too much with his shoulder and arm. While not as flagrant as a kid from our LL who had to sit out a year with a damaged growth plate, the throwing motion is similar.

          What makes it harder to determine is he's not on a mound pitching. In fact the catch seems very casual. I'd like to see him on the mound and throwing across an infield.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MSandman View Post
            I left a bunch of throws in these clips, so you can really see what he's doing, rather than me trying to pick one throw from each angle, and possibly hiding some details. My wife filmed from 3 angles, so hopefully there's enough. Note: he's only thrown a 1/2 dozen times or so this year. And a few days prior to this, he was feeling some soreness in his elbow. So he might've been a bit tentative today. He's certainly not trying to throw anywhere near 100%, probably closer to 75-80%.
            I don't see anything glaring, which suggests to me that his elbow problems was due more to overuse than anything.

            Which way does his FB move? Arm side (tail) or glove side (cut)?

            He's at a vulnerable age and, given his past problems, I would really limit how much he pitches until he's 16 or 17 and his growth plates are closed. Maybe 60 pitches once a week.

            He does keep his fingers on top of the ball a little long (which is bad), but he shows the ball to 3B at the high cocked position (which is good).

            His lower body and glove action look solid.
            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
              It looks like he doesn't use his lower body enough and then throws too much with his shoulder and arm. While not as flagrant as a kid from our LL who had to sit out a year with a damaged growth plate, the throwing motion is similar.

              What makes it harder to determine is he's not on a mound pitching. In fact the catch seems very casual. I'd like to see him on the mound and throwing across an infield.
              I agree TG; I was thinking the same thing - that it was a very casual catch and that I should film him pitching and throwing across an infield. I'll try to do that this weekend.

              Plus I think he was throwing better today using the hips more. We'll see.

              Thanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                linear

                Sandman...

                Your son should really concentrate on his arm action.

                He is getting the ball up (then almost pauses with it while waiting for the rest of his body to get out of the way) and then pushes it the rest of the way.

                Also concentrate on conditioning (band work - especially excersizes for the shoulder and elbow). Slowly work up to being able to throw 5-6 times/week (lots of catch and long toss). Watch how many innings and rest in between he is getting.

                As he matures his body movements should get better. If the elbow is still an issue, then he should see a doctor. Conditioning rather than pitching may be the order of the day for a while.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RobV View Post
                  Your son should really concentrate on his arm action.

                  He is getting the ball up (then almost pauses with it while waiting for the rest of his body to get out of the way) and then pushes it the rest of the way.
                  His arm action is perfectly normal, especially considering he's not throwing full out.

                  There is certainly no pushing.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                    His arm action is perfectly normal, especially considering he's not throwing full out.

                    There is certainly no pushing.
                    Yes there is (at least 3 frames worth after footplant).

                    Also hip slide and no separation (but that may not show up for a couple years).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mark, his wrist seems stiff when he releases the ball. Seems like he could get some more zip on it if he added some snap to his release.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RobV View Post
                        Yes there is (at least 3 frames worth after footplant).

                        Also hip slide and no separation (but that may not show up for a couple years).
                        I see it too rob,,he arms it for a split second..personally I'd like to see him show the catcher his "numbers" on the back of his uniform..hes very erect.

                        mike did he catch alot..he seems to have a snap type throw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RobV View Post
                          Yes there is (at least 3 frames worth after footplant).

                          Also hip slide and no separation (but that may not show up for a couple years).
                          How do you define pushing the ball?
                          Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                          I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wog,

                            What do you mean by "show the catcher his numbers"? Turn his shoulders more? If so, then that's my fault. I've been trying for years to get him to turn LESS. Or do you mean bending over more in his follow-through (which he does when he pitches)?

                            No, he's really NEVER caught. The short-arm'ing might be a leftover from his injury. As he worked his way back from it, he tended to push the ball a bit, probably trying to avoid re-injury.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MSandman View Post
                              Wog,

                              What do you mean by "show the catcher his numbers"? Turn his shoulders more? If so, then that's my fault. I've been trying for years to get him to turn LESS. Or do you mean bending over more in his follow-through (which he does when he pitches)?

                              No, he's really NEVER caught. The short-arm'ing might be a leftover from his injury. As he worked his way back from it, he tended to push the ball a bit, probably trying to avoid re-injury.





                              Or do you mean bending over more in his follow-through (which he does when he pitches)?

                              yes....

                              Comment

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