No early torque

[jbooth]

Below is a link to streaming video of my theory of how the hands move the bat. It is 10 minutes and 26 seconds long.

Hopefully discussion will follow.

It's .wmv from a streaming site:

http://wms17.streamhoster.com/firstpick/notht2.wmv

[Slapper23]

Jim,

It's already been explained to you. Of course the knob is moving forward while this turning of the bat takes place. But while it is underway, the bottom hand is moving forward while simultaneously turning palm down - the top hand moves forward while it turn palm up. Both hands apply force to the bat in opposing directions - a torquing action. It's not simply gravity making the bat head drop combined with pulling the bat handle from underneath the bat head. Lateral tilting action works together with hand/arm torquing action of the bat handle and gravity.

As a matter of fact, a few times it appeared to me you were applying torque to the bat as you were demonstrating. Your demo of hand torque assumed the bat knob does not move forward - of course it does.

I give you credit for taking the time to video your demo, but disagree with your conclusions.

Mike

[Go Cardinals]

Jim... do you have a batting cage at your house? Or basically nearby?

Go get one of these:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5797&stc=1&d=1142198765

Crank the machine up to 70-80 mph (whatever a fast speed that you can still hit) and hit with it. Record it, then discuss your findings.

[wrstdude]

Below is a link to streaming video of my theory of how the hands move the bat. It is 10 minutes and 26 seconds long.

Hopefully discussion will follow.

It's .wmv from a streaming site:

http://wms17.streamhoster.com/firstpick/notht2.wmv

What benefits are to be gained by using your method as opposed to the "torquing" method?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Jim... do you have a batting cage at your house? Or basically nearby?

Go get one of these:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5797&stc=1&d=1142198765

Crank the machine up to 70-80 mph (whatever a fast speed that you can still hit) and hit with it. Record it, then discuss your findings.

You are beginning to sound more like someone else every day.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=25&n=21&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

[jbooth]

Jim,

It's already been explained to you. Of course the knob is moving forward while this turning of the bat takes place. But while it is underway, the bottom hand is moving forward while simultaneously turning palm down - the top hand moves forward while it turn palm up. Both hands apply force to the bat in opposing directions - a torquing action. It's not simply gravity making the bat head drop combined with pulling the bat handle from underneath the bat head. Lateral tilting action works together with hand/arm torquing action of the bat handle and gravity.

As a matter of fact, a few times it appeared to me you were applying torque to the bat as you were demonstrating.

I give you credit for taking the time to video your demo, but disagree with your conclusions.

Mike

Geez, I showed that there is almost zero movement of the bone called the radius in the act of getting the hands flat, and you still think that that movement provides force. Amazing! The palm-up/palm-down is accomplished with almost no rotation of the forearm. Open your eyes man!

And I can absolutely GUARANTEE that I NEVER applied any EARLY torque.

Your demo of hand torque assumed the bat knob does not move forward - of course it does.

I don't know what you are talking about here. What demo? And, when did I ever say the knob didn't move forward?

[jbooth]

Jim... do you have a batting cage at your house? Or basically nearby?

Go get one of these:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5797&stc=1&d=1142198765

Crank the machine up to 70-80 mph (whatever a fast speed that you can still hit) and hit with it. Record it, then discuss your findings.

Now, THAT has to be a response from Richard.

Yes, I have a place nearby that has a machine that throws 75 from 46 feet, (equivilent to 98 from 46) and I'm not late on it. I miss a few and I don't always get the sweet spot on the ball, but I'm not late, and I don't use early torque.

And, what is your point? What problems do you think I would have if I swung that bat instead of a real one?

[jbooth]

What benefits are to be gained by using your method as opposed to the "torquing" method?

It's not MY method, and I'm not debating benefits, I'm just showing that early torque is NOT what happens in an MLB swing.

I thought I made it pretty clear that the radius bone barely moves during the swing. Therefore, there can't be much force coming from the muscles that move it.

[Go Cardinals]

Now, THAT has to be a response from Richard.

Yes, I have a place nearby that has a machine that throws 75 from 46 feet, (equivilent to 98 from 46) and I'm not late on it. I miss a few and I don't always get the sweet spot on the ball, but I'm not late, and I don't use early torque.

And, what is your point? What problems do you think I would have if I swung that bat instead of a real one?

No I was actually just curious what you thought about the medicus bat...

Funny thing is... I was just at costco and In-n-Out. I made that comment before I left he hadn't been on since yesterday. Also, haven't had a pm here or there for a while.

I was simply asking an honest question... you know richard speaks english... so do I... does that mean its from him?

[Go Cardinals]

You are beginning to sound more like someone else every day.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/...=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

that's a tee not a machine...

[jbooth]

No I was actually just curious what you thought about the medicus bat...

Funny thing is... I was just at costco and In-n-Out. I made that comment before I left he hadn't been on since yesterday. Also, haven't had a pm here or there for a while.

I was simply asking an honest question... you know richard speaks english... so do I... does that mean its from him?

I don't believe you. You're spinning now. You didn't ask a question about the medicus bat, you told me to do something. The implication of the statement was that I would discover something related to my views by doing what you asked.

Funny how FiveFrameSwing also thought the statement wasn't from you.

[jbooth]

that's a tee not a machine...

What has that got to do with anything? You're ignorance is showing large.

And, what does the medicus bat have to do with the subject of this thread and what I discussed in the video?

[Erik]

that's a tee not a machine...

Jim,

would you agree that hitters that loose the front wrist or maintain the bat in the palms cause the barell to drop below the ideal plane to the ball? I can tell you I don't push and pull with my swing. This IMO gets the hands and arms ahead of the body's rotation. I believe the back arm and front arm are working different than what you desribe the feeling that is real to you. Can you or anyone post any game clips of Ted Williams that show the bat head dropping like this Tee shot I have seen.







EL,

[Slapper23]

Geez, I showed that there is almost zero movement of the bone called the radius in the act of getting the hands flat, and you still think that that movement provides force. Amazing! The palm-up/palm-down is accomplished with almost no rotation of the forearm. Open your eyes man!

Jim, yes you did, IMO it's just not the way the ML swing proceeds.

don't know what you are talking about here. What demo? And, when did I ever say the knob didn't move forward?

Jim, when you were showing how, in your opinion, hand torquing does not exist, you were turning the bat - applying a torquing action to the bat - while it was held stationary. That's what I was referring to.

Mike

[FiveFrameSwing]

Below is a link to streaming video of my theory of how the hands move the bat. It is 10 minutes and 26 seconds long.

Hopefully discussion will follow.

It's .wmv from a streaming site:

http://wms17.streamhoster.com/firstpick/notht2.wmv

Thank you for putting that video together Jim. Your time and effort is greatly appreciated.

I did notice that you frequently 'tipped' the bat towards opposite field, which is something I hadn't noticed in your earlier work. Is this something that you now teach your hitting students?

There was one hitting session I did when I described the action of 'early torque'. I only did that once and haven't brought it up again. My opinion is that what is more important in this regard is the hand/barrel load. If I get a student doing this correctly then I see the hand and barrel action which agrees remarkably well wrt the pros. Hence my question of whether or not you are a strong advocate of tipping to opposite field, which isn't something I have pushed.