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  • 12 yo swing

    Here's my 12 yo. He's been pretty successful with what you see here. He's faced some solid pitching and hasn't struggled much with higher velocity, and has hit with power.

    He's always been a very 'army' hitter, and over the last few years has had some really pronounced drag. We've worked a lot on trying to eliminate that and get his hips moving earlier.

    From the recent video I took it appears his drag has really cut down, and unlike my other son he starts his launch with a more vertical bat position.

    He's still not clearing his hips, and I don't think his lower body is driving his swing as much as it should. It has improved some, there was some times last year where his rear foot was still sideways at contact.

    What's driving me crazy is how he rolls his arms over at contact, and ends up finishing low. It looks like his shoulders just finish right before contact and then he applies a lot of force at contact with his forearms.

    His swing plane looks like it starts OK, but then his shoulders stay pretty level throughout his swing. Maybe a little more tilt into launch to get the rear shoulder to drop some?

    He also appears to leak some power as his front leg stays flexed until after contact.

    Any thoughts on what to focus on first? I really appreciate everyones comments and advice on my other threads. Thank You!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGHPl7liS_A
    Last edited by my3boys; 03-24-2008, 12:01 AM.

  • #2
    All three exhibit similar styles.
    1. With your older boy what becomes clear is his spinning on his front heal.
    2. There are some balance issues - on several swings he falls forward.
    3. Swing plane seems flat - may be due to high pitching
    4. He disconnects early - seems his front arm bars almost immediately

    JMHO - Hope this helps
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by my3boys View Post
      Here's my 12 yo. He's been pretty successful with what you see here. He's faced some solid pitching and hasn't struggled much with higher velocity, and has hit with power.

      He's always been a very 'army' hitter, and over the last few years has had some really pronounced drag. We've worked a lot on trying to eliminate that and get his hips moving earlier.

      From the recent video I took it appears his drag has really cut down, and unlike my other son he starts his launch with a more vertical bat position.

      He's still not clearing his hips, and I don't think his lower body is driving his swing as much as it should. It has improved some, there was some times last year where his rear foot was still sideways at contact.

      What's driving me crazy is how he rolls his arms over at contact, and ends up finishing low. It looks like his shoulders just finish right before contact and then he applies a lot of force at contact with his forearms.

      His swing plane looks like it starts OK, but then his shoulders stay pretty level throughout his swing. Maybe a little more tilt into launch to get the rear shoulder to drop some?

      He also appears to leak some power as his front leg stays flexed until after contact.

      Any thoughts on what to focus on first? I really appreciate everyones comments and advice on my other threads. Thank You!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGHPl7liS_A
      He's not turning his hips very well, nor using correct mechanics to do it. He's also very much top hand dominate. He's swiveling (supinating) his top hand very early which is causing a type of casting of the bathead, then he looks like he uses his right hand/arm almost exclusively to power the bat into the ball.

      The sequence is off. You need to use both arms and body rotation to get the bat going, but (don't take this LITERALLY), you have to think of directing the knob toward the ball/pitcher (just at first, not all the way). He's forcing the bathead around instead of letting it follow the knob.

      Swing the handle, not the head. The sequence is hips, handle, bathead. Not, bathead, hips, handle, which is kinda what he is doing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Adding to what Jake and Jim said, I'd say first that this is not a 'bad' swing. It's at about the 75th percentile of swings I see at that age level. But, this also means that there's a lot to improve.

        First, get outta the dam* mud! He needs a solid landing spot for the hips to be able to move around the front hip. And, when you edit clips, we don't need to sit through slo motion of him growsing at the muddy ground -- just the meat please!

        Onto the swing. His upper body set up and load looks very good (I like the bat angle), but there's not much tension there. He needs to tilt over more and feel the tension across his back. Also, there's no inward turn of his front knee or hip - very typical.

        As his swing starts, a few of mechanical things go awry. (I won't go for the bigger picture analysis Jim amply provides.) First, the back elbow comes down without a corresponding change in the bat angle -- i.e., he disconnects vertically. And, as Jake notes, he bars (straightens) that arm almost immediately. Then he steps forward opening his hips immediately, losing whatever small benefit his hips might provide. So, he has to make an "army", swoopy swing to get the bat through; surprisingly, he doesn't get his back elbow in front of his hands (bat lag) much considering.

        Finally, the hands stop at contact -- which probably is a combination of the incomplete hip rotation and the overemphasis of the top hand 'punching'. While this leads to the rolling over at contact, that rolling is more of a symptom of the other problems than it is a cause that needs to be independently addressed. One cue I and others use to get a more complete finish with the hands is to imagine that a giant is your third base coach and you're trying to chop off his head with a left-handed karate chop. (Other, less imaginative, instructors just say "finish high".)

        Basic drills to work with:

        1. Some kind of hip turning drill. There are many out there that do about the same thing. Just make sure that the back hip and knee are coming around the front hip and that he's not just spinning in place and not opening his front hip too soon. Another good image in doing this is to think of the back knee chasing the front knee as he turns, but not quite catching it.

        2. A drill to work on disconnection issues: Try slow motion swings that emphasize (a) tilting, (b) keeping the hands near the back shoulder longer and keeping the front elbow bent longer ("maintaining the box"), and (c) keeping the bat lagged back longer -- remaining at a 90 degree angle to the forearms until the hands clear the front hip. Do this slo-mo swing 2 or 3 times and stopping while the bat is still pointed back at the catcher and the hands are at the front hip. On the third or fourth attempt, complete the swing. Rinse and repeat about 30 times a day.

        Come back in two weeks and you'll have a better hitter.
        sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Great stuff Ursa.. exactly what I was looking for!

          This editing stuff is painful when you have your 9 yo son running the camera!

          I'll do better next time, promise.

          I noticed he does start to land with his front foot pretty open at times, I guess that doesn't help much either.

          Thanks again for the thoughtful reply. Will find some dry land to practice some of your suggestions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ursa Major View Post
            1. Some kind of hip turning drill. There are many out there that do about the same thing. Just make sure that the back hip and knee are coming around the front hip and that he's not just spinning in place and not opening his front hip too soon. Another good image in doing this is to think of the back knee chasing the front knee as he turns, but not quite catching it.
            This drill is used by many. Steve E. has a great clip on this.
            Jake

            TLL Coaches' Clinic 2008 - Long stick drill.doc
            "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
            - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

            Comment


            • #7
              what program can i use to open that? thanks
              Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
              This drill is used by many. Steve E. has a great clip on this.
              Jake

              [ATTACH]38148[/ATTACH]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                This drill is used by many. Steve E. has a great clip on this.
                Jake

                [ATTACH]38148[/ATTACH]
                Thanks Jake, we did try this some last year using a hitting stick and a ball on a tee. Kid's thought I was crazy.. we'll have to revisit it. I think it would probably be more beneficial with something that won't flex as much as a hitting stick though..

                I guess this should help with hip rotation as well as tilt (shoulder/ bat plane) as well, right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hawkiirock View Post
                  what program can i use to open that? thanks

                  Word 97-2003
                  "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                  - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by my3boys View Post
                    Thanks Jake, we did try this some last year using a hitting stick and a ball on a tee. Kid's thought I was crazy.. we'll have to revisit it. I think it would probably be more beneficial with something that won't flex as much as a hitting stick though..

                    I guess this should help with hip rotation as well as tilt (shoulder/ bat plane) as well, right?

                    Yes .
                    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First, the back elbow comes down without a corresponding change in the bat angle -- i.e., he disconnects vertically.
                      Could someone explain this a little further? I'm just not seeing it..

                      To me it looks like the bat angle starts off OK as the elbow drops, but then just flattens out as the shoulders remain level and arms take over.

                      Is this something that could be fixed independently from the angle of the shoulders? Is it a hands or arm adjustment? Or ultimately something that better posture/tilt will take care of?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's what I see.

                        His elbow is up, as If he's barry bonds. But drop the shoulder down that way when he swings, the hands can easily go straight back and he can come throw the ball, so the bat will be an extension of his arm, make solid contact with the ball.

                        I had my elbow up to begin this season, but now i brought it down, and I'm not popping up the ball nearly as much as I did.

                        Also...

                        Make sure his stride foot stays closed, if he keeps it open like that he loses power.

                        Oh, and to clear his hips. I suggest a 1-2-3 drill we do at our high school. Step one, Stride, and move hands directly back. Step two, rotate hips, keeping hands back. Step 3, swing, letting hands do what is natural and creating more power.
                        Last edited by yuniesky4prez; 03-25-2008, 07:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                          This drill is used by many. Steve E. has a great clip on this.
                          Jake

                          [ATTACH]38148[/ATTACH]
                          Something similar for hip rotation is to have the player put his back behind his back at the lower back, parallel to the ground. The arms reach back and down around the bat. Put a ball on tee, probably raised higher than normal. Make the player rotate, hitting the ball with the bat. It'll work only if the hips are rotating.

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