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  • The history of blur

    People are probably getting sick of this, so hopefully this will be the last thread I start on this.

    The background on blur for newcomers is this;

    Some people believe that the way to get the high batspeed that MLB hitters achieve, you must apply force and get the bathead going early. They believe the way to get the bathead going early is to use the muscles in the forearms, wrists and hands and twist at the handle of the bat, and pinwheel or swivel the bathead, and do this early. The force is applied to make the bathead arc back forcefully toward the catcher.

    Now, most people said this was nonsense, so the believers pointed to the blur of the bat that can be seen in MLB swings, that occurs shortly after the bathead starts to move. They said that to get that blur and therefore, achieve MLB-like bat speed, you had to do it as they instruct.

    I have been attempting to refute that, and I say that number 1, that is not how MLB hitters do it, and 2; the blur CAN be achieved even when not applying forces in the manner that those others believe.

    I made a demo video that showed how it can be done. They weren't convinced. So, I made a video where I just swung a bat holding a bolt through the handle, and I got blur. Then, I made a video of a BAD non-swing that just yanked the handle and I got blur, and they said it wasn't proof because they weren't REAL swings.

    I then made my best effort to produce a REAL swing and it got blur, and they said it was a pretty good swing, but the blur was at the wrong time, and wrong angle. However, there WAS blur without using their method. Then some said, I was using their method, but I just don't know it. :noidea

    Well here's what I hope is the LAST demo. I'm doing a version of Mike Epstein's "Torque" drill. There is very little hip turn, no weight shift, the hands are at the armpit, and the bat is on the shoulder. I just rotate. I'm not torqing the bathead rearward because if I did, the bat would come away from my shoulder. I'm not rotating my forearms, my arms are pretty much locked in place, the hands are just moving with the back shoulder.

    Well, I got blur again, and it's rearward and down. So, what will they come up with next?:noidea



    Below is a link to the actual video.

    http://firstpickclub.com/video/blurepstein2.avi

    I want to be clear, that I'm not saying you can get as much batspeed doing this drill as you can in a real swing. But, the only factor in the real swing is that the hands DO get a "running start" by starting away from the body in the stance, and then they pull into the armpit area as the hips get started, and the hands "jump onto" the shoulder rotation. This breaks the inertia of the hands and the bathead, but you don't torque and swivel while you position the hands to the launch point.
    Last edited by jbooth; 03-29-2008, 06:23 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by jbooth
    and then they pull into the armpit area as the hips get started, and the hands "jump onto" the shoulder rotation.
    Excellent description Jim.........

    And they stay there for hopefully at least 2 frames of launch...........

    The swing is truely as simple as that........

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
      Excellent description Jim.........

      And they stay there for hopefully at least 2 frames of launch...........

      The swing is truely as simple as that........
      Yep, I think this looks almost identical to the drill.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
        Excellent description Jim.........

        And they stay there for hopefully at least 2 frames of launch...........

        The swing is truely as simple as that........
        hips shoulders hands


        I am so clear on this now, the swing is so easy for me to understand now thanks.

        Now I got to find the number to my sports agent and call the lawyer and sports psychologist.

        I see love in this thread,

        drill
        Yogi Berra was asked by a reporter "How do you catch a knuckle ball?" He came right back and said "When it stops rolling"

        Comment


        • #5
          Jim do you not think this last swing is far better than the others?

          What would you say you did wrong in the first example, that as a teacher you would correct? What was it about the deltoid placement, lateral tilt and separation that created this barrel path that could not be created previously? Is it just connecting better like BM suggests? I think the lateral tilt and not shifting your weight to the front before launching must be helping here.

          No sarcasm. The deltoid swing path looks WAYYY better. Rich has spent a a good deal of time lately on this riding the back leg, or launching the swing from the back leg. I see that here in the Epstein setup. You are not finishing low either.

          Remember how Swingbuster every now and then would say something like "the more I get away the more we seem to end up back at Epstein".

          What do you think of Epstein's "scoop sand with the top hand" cue? Looks like your top hand gets there in this clip.

          Comment


          • #6
            Enc, I wasn't suggesting that Jim's improvement was soley due to connection. I was just telling him that in order to succeed at your "mouse test", he just needed to stay connected.........

            He did a lot of things different with the lower body and the upper load pattern. But as he said, he didn't swivel his forearms or torque the handle.......

            So while this is a good swing for a guy old enough to be my dad, it doesn't seem to pass the same type of blur Richard speaks of. Like he said it does blur but doesn't blur rearward."
            Originally posted by Encinitas View Post
            Jim do you not think this last swing is far better than the others?

            What would you say you did wrong in the first example, that as a teacher you would correct? What was it about the deltoid placement, lateral tilt and separation that created this barrel path that could not be created previously? Is it just connecting better like BM suggests? I think the lateral tilt and not shifting your weight to the front before launching must be helping here.

            No sarcasm. The deltoid swing path looks WAYYY better. Rich has spent a a good deal of time lately on this riding the back leg, or launching the swing from the back leg. I see that here in the Epstein setup. You are not finishing low either.

            Remember how Swingbuster every now and then would say something like "the more I get away the more we seem to end up back at Epstein".

            What do you think of Epstein's "scoop sand with the top hand" cue? Looks like your top hand gets there in this clip.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
              Enc, I wasn't suggesting that Jim's improvement was soley due to connection. I was just telling him that in order to succeed at your "mouse test", he just needed to stay connected.........

              He did a lot of things different with the lower body and the upper load pattern. But as he said, he didn't swivel his forearms or torque the handle.......
              Yea I shouldn't have said "solely" it's just you were the main one offering advice on that point.

              Comment


              • #8
                ouch,


                Thanks for trying Jim, but thats not a good effort on the torque drill. Front elbow is flat not coming up towards the ball, your weight is coming forward, and you really need to hinge the back leg more to get the natural tilt. Has it been that long since you used the drill to forget how it looks? You also got chicken wing going on. I have also added raising the back elbow and throwing it in as the swing starts.

                Are we still really talking about this. The 2 camps are so far apart that you should just let it go.

                Cally

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by callyjr View Post
                  Are we still really talking about this. The 2 camps are so far apart that you should just let it go.Cally
                  I agree....
                  "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                  - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by callyjr View Post
                    ouch,


                    Thanks for trying Jim, but thats not a good effort on the torque drill. Front elbow is flat not coming up towards the ball, your weight is coming forward, and you really need to hinge the back leg more to get the natural tilt. Has it been that long since you used the drill to forget how it looks? You also got chicken wing going on. I have also added raising the back elbow and throwing it in as the swing starts.

                    Are we still really talking about this. The 2 camps are so far apart that you should just let it go.

                    Cally
                    Several things. As you know, I parted ways with Mike because I didn't agree with everything he taught, so here's my answers;

                    1. Being 58, it's really hard to stretch and get the hips turned around like they should be for the drill. So, yes, I moved the hips in the swing. I don't recommend that.

                    2. I want my weight coming forward, that is the disagreement I have with Mike. I don't want to sit on the back foot at contact. Or, turn with weight on the back side.

                    3. The chicken wing; if you mean that my back elbow is behind my back; I want it like that, so I feel it move into the side as I rotate. It's MY version.

                    4. Also, I don't believe in deliberately raising the front elbow. It should raise naturally. If I deliberately raise it, it causes problems for ME.

                    It's not my nature to let things go. If you don't want to continue, you don't have to read or post in threads related to this subject. Others may have a different opinion from you, and want to continue.
                    Last edited by jbooth; 03-30-2008, 08:05 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm enjoying reading all of the posts in these threads, regardless of the disagreements (or maybe because of them). Threads tend to die out naturally if people don't like them.

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jbooth View Post
                          People are probably getting sick of this, so hopefully this will be the last thread I start on this.

                          The background on blur for newcomers is this;

                          Some people believe that the way to get the high batspeed that MLB hitters achieve, you must apply force and get the bathead going early. They believe the way to get the bathead going early is to use the muscles in the forearms, wrists and hands and twist at the handle of the bat, and pinwheel or swivel the bathead, and do this early. The force is applied to make the bathead arc back forcefully toward the catcher.

                          Now, most people said this was nonsense, so the believers pointed to the blur of the bat that can be seen in MLB swings, that occurs shortly after the bathead starts to move. They said that to get that blur and therefore, achieve MLB-like bat speed, you had to do it as they instruct.

                          I have been attempting to refute that, and I say that number 1, that is not how MLB hitters do it, and 2; the blur CAN be achieved even when not applying forces in the manner that those others believe.

                          I made a demo video that showed how it can be done. They weren't convinced. So, I made a video where I just swung a bat holding a bolt through the handle, and I got blur. Then, I made a video of a BAD non-swing that just yanked the handle and I got blur, and they said it wasn't proof because they weren't REAL swings.

                          I then made my best effort to produce a REAL swing and it got blur, and they said it was a pretty good swing, but the blur was at the wrong time, and wrong angle. However, there WAS blur without using their method. Then some said, I was using their method, but I just don't know it. :noidea

                          Well here's what I hope is the LAST demo. I'm doing a version of Mike Epstein's "Torque" drill. There is very little hip turn, no weight shift, the hands are at the armpit, and the bat is on the shoulder. I just rotate. I'm not torqing the bathead rearward because if I did, the bat would come away from my shoulder. I'm not rotating my forearms, my arms are pretty much locked in place, the hands are just moving with the back shoulder.

                          Well, I got blur again, and it's rearward and down. So, what will they come up with next?:noidea



                          Below is a link to the actual video.

                          http://firstpickclub.com/video/blurepstein2.avi

                          I want to be clear, that I'm not saying you can get as much batspeed doing this drill as you can in a real swing. But, the only factor in the real swing is that the hands DO get a "running start" by starting away from the body in the stance, and then they pull into the armpit area as the hips get started, and the hands "jump onto" the shoulder rotation. This breaks the inertia of the hands and the bathead, but you don't torque and swivel while you position the hands to the launch point.
                          The H-I master asked for "real" swings, so here are 4 swings at golf ball sized wiffle balls shot at me from a machine 20 feet away. No THT, no swivel, no forearm rotation, no wrist twisties. All I did was concentrate on locking the hands into the back armpit as I dropped the back elbow and turned to the ball. I got early blur, rearward blur, downward blur, and no disconnection.

                          End of story on blur.

                          http://firstpickclub.com/video/blurmachine2.wmv
                          Last edited by jbooth; 03-30-2008, 05:00 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            End of story on blur.
                            Jim:

                            I'm sure you know it WON'T be the end of the story. He'll be posting somewhere (wherever he is still permitted) tomorrow with yet another definition of "swivel." A target that has moved at least 1/2 dozen times in the past year.

                            Tom will follow soon after with a pages long, incredibly convoluted description of what the leader REALLY meant all along, and how it is compatible with every known force in the universe (except the laws of physics and the experience of people who actually teach multiple kids to hit).

                            My hope is that you will choose NOT to respond to it. You've made the point - capably and repeatedly. Nothing left to prove. Instead, I hope you'll spend the energy doing what you do very well - actually working with a kid, helping him improve.

                            Regards,

                            Scott
                            Last edited by ssarge; 03-30-2008, 10:04 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ssarge View Post
                              Jim:

                              I'm sure you know it WON'T be the end of the story. He'll be posting somewhere (wherever he is still permitted) tomorrow with yet another definition of "swivel." A target that has moved at least 1/2 dozen times in the past year.

                              Tom will follow soon after with a pages long, incredibly convoluted description of what the leader REALLY meant all along, and how it is compatible with every known force in the universe (except the laws of physics and the experience of people who actually teach multiple kids to hit).

                              My hope is that you will choose NOT to respond to it. You've made the point - capably and repeatedly. Nothing left to prove. Instead, I hope you'll spend the energy doing what you do very well - actually working with a kid, helping him improve.

                              Regards,

                              Scott
                              I agree Scott

                              Comment

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