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  • #31
    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    Are you going through the clips frame by frame?
    Watch the above video and pause each swing at contact and tell me what you see.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jesse View Post
      Watch the above video and pause each swing at contact and tell me what you see.
      Nothing telling.

      Overhead is a terrible angle for judging connection. In most cases the batter's head hides their elbow angle at the point of contact.

      However, I will say that the elbow angle changes in each clip after the point of contact, which means they weren't extended and making the Power V at the point of contact.

      You also don't know the context of any of the swings. Were they home runs or dribblers?

      This is a much more telling angle.

      Last edited by Chris O'Leary; 04-03-2008, 08:29 PM.
      Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

      I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

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      • #33
        There is not one where his elbow is hidden, Do you even look at video, or just stills?

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        • #34
          Look at the first hitter.... Do you feel he is extended at contact???
          "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
          - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by randy View Post
            There is not one where his elbow is hidden, Do you even look at video, or just stills?
            Please.

            Did you even look at the video?

            In the first overhead view, you can't see the back elbow at the point of contact. It's behind his head.

            In the Ted Williams clip (3rd overall), his back elbow at the point of contact is obscured by his head.

            In the fourth clip, the point of contact is off the frame, so you can't tell what the elbow angle is at the point of contact.
            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

            Comment


            • #36
              It's hard to see, but that's the ball right on the tip of his bat. Is it because of the high pitch? That's a nice level swing, too.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Jesse; 04-03-2008, 08:53 PM.

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              • #37
                Here's another view, of another swing...maybe another high pitch?
                Attached Files

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                • #38
                  Here are a few more to look at...you could argue that they're not at full extension, but certainly more extension than we're used to seeing from modern hitters at the point of contact. Why is that?
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jesse View Post
                    It's hard to see, but that's the ball right on the tip of his bat. Is it because of the high pitch? That's a nice level swing, too.
                    First, the result of the swing was a grounder and probably an out. You can't ignore the context of a swing.

                    Second, that's about the only case in which a ML hitter actually swings level.

                    This is a high pitch and a near-level swing.



                    This is a low pitch and a very tilted swing.



                    Third, you could argue whether he should have even swung at the pitch. He probably swung at everything because they were burning high speed film.
                    Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                    I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                      Look at the first hitter.... Do you feel he is extended at contact???
                      The first hitter looked good to me.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jesse View Post
                        Here are a few more to look at...you could argue that they're not at full extension, but certainly more extension than we're used to seeing from modern hitters at the point of contact. Why is that?
                        What is the context of each swing?

                        Were they home runs? Were they fooled?

                        As I have said before, if you ignore the context of a swing, you can use a still to justify any theory of hitting.

                        Here's Albert Pujols making the Power V at the point of contact and squishing the bug.

                        Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                        I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                          which means they weren't extended and making the Power V at the point of contact.

                          Chris, I don't think anybody is saying you should be in this position AT the point of contact, I know I'm not. Certain pitches it might happen. But if a hitter never gets to the extended point AFTER contact, tells me they are probably cutting their swing off.
                          Last edited by hiddengem; 04-03-2008, 09:08 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by hiddengem View Post
                            Chris, I don't think anybody is saying you should be in this position AT the point of contact, I know I'm not. But if a hitter never gets to the extended point AFTER contact, tells me they are probably cutting their swing off.
                            I don't know about that.

                            These folks seem to be saying that you should be extended at the point of contact (and swing level).

                            It's like it's 1978 all over again.

                            I agree with you about the above, BTW.
                            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              You're right, and you do. Jesse's stills from the videos seemed to show both elbows, and I must admit, I tend to look at lead arm more.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                We don't know the context of each swing. We do, however, see some consistency across several different swings from several different hitters, including the great Ted Williams himself. I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea that every single one of those was a bad swing, but maybe that was the case. Seems odd to make a showcase video of nothing but bad swings though.

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