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  • #46
    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    These folks seem to be saying that you should be extended at the point of contact.
    If that was directed at me, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm asking questions about what I'm seeing. Because a lot of what I'm seeing on this particular video goes against everything I've read here about point of contact. I don't know enough about hitting at this point to do anything but ask questions.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post

      This is a much more telling angle.


      I don't think you should strive to be totally extended on contact, but I believe in this shot of AP, the ball is TOO deep. You are at optimum batspeed when the bat is lined up with the bottom arm at contact. That to me is having the good extension..not having both arms locked out at contact.

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      • #48


        Originally posted by hiddengem View Post
        I don't think you should strive to be totally extended on contact, but I believe in this shot of AP, the ball is TOO deep.
        The result of the swing above was a home run.

        This is Albert's standard contact point on most of his home runs.







        This makes sense given the rotating figure skater analogy.

        The closer the limbs are to the body, the faster the torso can rotate and the faster the head of the bat travels.


        Originally posted by hiddengem View Post
        You are at optimum batspeed when the bat is lined up with the bottom arm at contact. That to me is having the good extension
        I'm not sure what you mean by this.
        Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

        I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by hiddengem View Post
          You are at optimum batspeed when the bat is lined up with the bottom arm at contact. That to me is having the good extension..not having both arms locked out at contact.
          That's true. But shortly after that the bat head starts slowing and the wrists start rolling. Doesn't leave you much room for error if you are slightly early. If your intended contact point is slightly before the bat and forearm line up, then you have more room for timing error either way and still hit the ball well.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Jesse View Post
            We don't know the context of each swing. We do, however, see some consistency across several different swings from several different hitters, including the great Ted Williams himself..
            Consistency without context is meaningless.

            They could all be consistently good swings or consistently bad swings.
            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

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            • #51
              This makes sense given the rotating figure skater analogy.

              The closer the limbs are to the body, the faster the torso can rotate and the faster the head of the bat travels.
              statements like that reveal your low level of understanding of how the body moves...the distal end of the bat is travel......ah forget it.....figure it out yourself...
              Last edited by Jake Patterson; 04-04-2008, 08:07 AM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                Consistency without context is meaningless.

                They could all be consistently good swings or consistently bad swings.
                Chris, it's obvious that neither of us has a satisfactory explanation for what we're seeing so arguing about it is pointless. Anyone else care to comment?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jesse
                  Anyone else care to comment?
                  Ya, I would..........

                  I'd like to see a copy of MarkL's "coach evaluation credentials".......:bowdown:

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                    That's true. But shortly after that the bat head starts slowing and the wrists start rolling. Doesn't leave you much room for error if you are slightly early. If your intended contact point is slightly before the bat and forearm line up, then you have more room for timing error either way and still hit the ball well.
                    I realize that, I was just pointing out that catching the ball in this position will result in the hardest impact. I wouldn't advocate picturing this position in your mind however. You'll get away with it with amature pitching, but the stuff I see will give you problems if you can't let the ball travel at times.

                    I think this is one reason that the best hitters can create the arc of their swing deeper in the zone, rather than out in front too much. Gives them more time. A lateral tilt of the shoulders at the on-set of the swing does this, as well as gives the hitter in their "mind" the feeling of swinging down on the ball. Manny and Barry do this well.

                    But if you aren't used to this "lateral" tilt, (normally rotating your shoulders, where your swing plane is more out in front) and you catch the ball out in front like maybe you were used to, you'll find yourself getting under balls too much. You'll find you can let the ball travel a bit more and still hit the ball hard on a line or in the air.

                    Here is the lateral tilt in Manny. Have to be careful not to let your hands go down and back when doing this..they need to stay up with the shoulder.

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                    • #55
                      http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...0&postcount=24

                      http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...9&postcount=26

                      http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...7&postcount=28

                      Mr. Booth and Mr. Member,
                      Do you both see the same thing that I see?

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                      • #56
                        I see what I originally said, or meant to say.

                        Each MLB hitter has his own style, yet a consistent movement that I see is that they move the rear elbow from whatever position in which they have it in their stance, down toward their body without very much corresponding movement of the bathead. IOW, they drop the elbow while pretty much (not literally) leaving the bathead alone. The bathead obviously moves somewhat, but they are mainly setting the elbow in preparation of the explosive moves that follow that will launch the bathead at the ball.

                        Howard is an extreme on one hand, (high elbow, lots of elbow movement) and Pete Rose is the other extreme, (very little elbow movement). Johnny Bench and Al Kaline more the norm.

                        Look at Bench on the view above him on his backside and watch how his top hand palm turns toward the sky as his elbow drops.

                        Look at Pujols and note his top palm movement in conjunction with his elbow drop. Watch Giambi's top hand palm. They all keep the palm toward the pitcher and let it turn up early, as the back elbow drops, yet the bathead is hardly moving. That is the proof that there is no THT, and no EARLY force to the bat. The bathead is mainly moving off of its original position due to shoulder movement. IOW, the top hand wrist is cocked or bent back. The back of the top hand is bent back toward the forearm. This helps keep the hands back (knob at armpit), and keeps from casting the bathead out, while you drop the elbow and start to rotate.

                        The elbow drop with hand bent back also helps the bottom hand turn down toward the ground without casting the bat, and as the shoulder turns and the front elbow rises, the hands become horizontal, and they got there without forearm rotation, or torquing the bat from between the hands. The hands get flat from upper arm movement, or IOW, change of elbow postion, NOT from torque between the hands. And the bathead moves with shoulder rotation, not from pulling it rearward with the top hand. It only appears to be being pulled because the elbow, the wrist and the shoulders are all doing something at the same time.

                        http://wms17.streamhoster.com/firstp...portsfilms.wmv



                        Last edited by jbooth; 04-05-2008, 10:52 AM.

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                        • #57
                          I hate the figure skating analogy. Chris, you are going to do to your students exactly the same thing that made you mad about the linear instruction you received. If you stick with the hands close to the body faster spin theory for hitting and the infamous Rose clip your students are headed for a short career. They will never learn to control the bat head and adjust to higher level pitchers. I've seen it and continue to see it everyday.

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                          • #58
                            Thanks for the response, Mr. Booth, but the question still remains unanswered. You don’t have to if you don’t want to.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jima View Post
                              I hate the figure skating analogy. Chris, you are going to do to your students exactly the same thing that made you mad about the linear instruction you received. If you stick with the hands close to the body faster spin theory for hitting and the infamous Rose clip your students are headed for a short career. They will never learn to control the bat head and adjust to higher level pitchers. I've seen it and continue to see it everyday.
                              So you're saying Pete Rose isn't a good guy to copy?

                              I thought he was a pretty good ball player, but I may be wrong...
                              Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                              I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                                Thanks for the response, Mr. Booth, but the question still remains unanswered. You don’t have to if you don’t want to.
                                What question is unanswered? And, what else do you need to know? I showed pictures and I explained the move pretty thoroughly. And, what's your point? Do you disagree, or do you just not understand?

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