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  • #61
    OK, DB. You say the angle of the bat to rear arm changes when the arm drops.

    Please explain why you think this is this important............


    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by jima View Post
      I hate the figure skating analogy.
      So you're saying making the Power V at the point of contact WON'T slow down the swing?

      The laws of physics say otherwise.


      Originally posted by jima View Post
      Chris, you are going to do to your students exactly the same thing that made you mad about the linear instruction you received.
      This isn't the case.

      I have clients at the minor league and D-1 college levels who have seen their power numbers go up significantly with no cost of to averages. They are simply hitting the ball harder.

      Also, just because I preach connection doesn't mean that I don't know that sometimes you have to disconnect/extend some(e.g. outside pitches). However, I want my guys to stay connected as much as possible.

      They generally look for the middle pitch, but will hit the outside pitch if they have to.
      Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

      I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
        OK, DB. You say the angle of the bat to rear arm changes when the arm drops.

        Please explain why you think this is this important............
        In the same vein, I have found that it tends to get brighter when the sun comes up.
        Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

        I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Mr. Member>
          OK, DB. You say the angle of the bat to rear arm changes when the arm drops.

          Please explain why you think this is this important............
          Excuse me, but that is a careless rephrasing, Mr. Member, and not important to me, but most likely critical to Ryan Howard, and his swing make-up.
          You and Mr. Booth wanted to know what I saw in clips that you both posted of Ryan Howard. Referring to the clips, Mr. Booth asked me, “Tell me what you see here”. You then asked me, “I'm also curious to hear what you see happening here”.
          I obliged, by answering, “I see the rear elbow separating from the bathead. I see an increase in the angle formed by the rear forearm and the bat when this happens.” I was puzzled why you both were so concerned with what I saw in the clips. I was curious, like you, and so I asked, “Do you both see the same thing that I see?”

          I simply would like to know if you see what I see. It’s not a hard question. One that can be answered with a simple yes or no. If there’s a problem, you don’t have to answer.

          Comment


          • #65
            Incoming.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
              I obliged, by answering, “I see the rear elbow separating from the bathead. I see an increase in the angle formed by the rear forearm and the bat when this happens.”
              I simply would like to know if you see what I see.
              I'm having difficulty picturing what you describe. I see the elbow move from its original position, toward his body/back hip without much corresponding movement of the bathead. I don't understand the angles you are describing.

              “I see the rear elbow separating from the bathead."
              I'm not sure what this describes.

              I see an increase in the angle formed by the rear forearm and the bat when this happens.
              The forearm-to-bat angle doesn't change much, but the upper arm-to-body angle changes.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                So you're saying making the Power V at the point of contact WON'T slow down the swing?

                The laws of physics say otherwise.
                To suggest that batspeed gurantees success as a hitter is like saying that if you have a 100 mph fastball you'll someday get a Cy Young award. SC has shown a variety of photos showing extension at and through impact. Pitch location is the determining factor as to how much extension is needed.



                This isn't the case.

                I have clients at the minor league and D-1 college levels who have seen their power numbers go up significantly with no cost of to averages. They are simply hitting the ball harder.

                Also, just because I preach connection doesn't mean that I don't know that sometimes you have to disconnect/extend some(e.g. outside pitches). However, I want my guys to stay connected as much as possible.

                They generally look for the middle pitch, but will hit the outside pitch if they have to.
                Chris, are you coaching hitting to professional and major college players or did I misread that? The internet is a wonderful thing. I agree that you should try to stay connected...no brainer. On the other hand, I have seen players (not D-1 or professionals like your students) who do to poor instruction keep their hands tight and turn like a figure skater and never make good contact. If you clients iin D1 or the minors llook for the middle pitch they are going to have a hard time...particularly, early in the count.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by DannyBoy
                  I see an increase in the angle formed by the rear forearm and the bat when this happens
                  Originally posted by BoardMember
                  OK, DB. You say the angle of the bat to rear arm changes when the arm drops.
                  Originally posted by DannyBoy
                  Excuse me, but that is a careless rephrasing
                  Really? I didn't think so.......

                  Regardless, I have no problem telling you what I see. I see the elbow make a pretty damn big move downward without any corrisponding movement of the bat head.

                  I guess I though you were an "early torque" advocate.

                  At which point my point would've been, how the hell does that amount of elbow action happen without bathead movement when you are "torquing the handle" at this point in the swing.........

                  That's all........



                  Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                  Excuse me, but that is a careless rephrasing, Mr. Member, and not important to me, but most likely critical to Ryan Howard, and his swing make-up.
                  You and Mr. Booth wanted to know what I saw in clips that you both posted of Ryan Howard. Referring to the clips, Mr. Booth asked me, “Tell me what you see here”. You then asked me, “I'm also curious to hear what you see happening here”.
                  I obliged, by answering, “I see the rear elbow separating from the bathead. I see an increase in the angle formed by the rear forearm and the bat when this happens.” I was puzzled why you both were so concerned with what I saw in the clips. I was curious, like you, and so I asked, “Do you both see the same thing that I see?”

                  I simply would like to know if you see what I see. It’s not a hard question. One that can be answered with a simple yes or no. If there’s a problem, you don’t have to answer.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I don't understand the angles you are describing.

                    I’m only describing one angle, Mr. Booth.
                    The angle is formed by two rays. One of the rays is the rear forearm, running from wrist to elbow. The other is the bat, running from the handle to the bathead. The vertex is where the rear hand grips the handle of the bat.

                    The rear elbow separating from the bathead means as you say “I see the elbow move from its original position, toward his body/back hip without much corresponding movement of the bathead.” The distance from the rear elbow to the bathead is increasing in length.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Thanks, Board Member.
                      Last edited by Jake Patterson; 04-12-2008, 03:28 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                        The distance from the rear elbow to the bathead is increasing in length.
                        OK, then I agree, but it's the movement of the upper arm that causes the elbow to increase distance from the bathead, not the forearm.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by jima View Post
                          Chris, are you coaching hitting to professional and major college players or did I misread that? The internet is a wonderful thing.
                          Yes and yes.

                          A few (e.g. 10ish) minor league and D-1 guys have found me as a result of my breakdowns of different ML swings.

                          I'm flattered, but I think it says more about the lack of quality (and quantity) of the hitting instruction they are receiving than it does about the exceptional quality of my work. I'm just teaching them the stuff that the main guys here agree on and teach.

                          It works.
                          Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                          I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                            Yes and yes.

                            A few (e.g. 10ish) minor league and D-1 guys have found me as a result of my breakdowns of different ML swings.

                            I'm flattered, but I think it says more about the lack of quality (and quantity) of the hitting instruction they are receiving than it does about the exceptional quality of my work. I'm just teaching them the stuff that the main guys here agree on and teach.

                            It works.
                            Congrats. I think we agree on the basics, but I think that there has to be more emphasis on what the hands do right before and during impact. If you extend too early, the swing will slow down as you have pointed out...but I think that SC's photos clearly shows that there is extension right at impact and after...I still don't like the spinning skater analogy, but it might work for someone. jima

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Chris stated:

                              Also, just because I preach connection doesn't mean that I don't know that sometimes you have to disconnect/extend some(e.g. outside pitches). However, I want my guys to stay connected as much as possible.

                              They generally look for the middle pitch, but will hit the outside pitch if they have to.


                              Chris that is a solid approach at any level. I have been lurking the last couple of days and catching up a bit. I see some things never change. I also take this same approach with my students and they can hit to all fields with consistent power. Why? They stay connected as long as possible through contact. Are they always perfect. No. But their swing plane is always consistent through the zone high or low. This alone will drive the average up and the power to increase.

                              Keep up the good work.

                              Elliott.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                ..........

                                I guess I though you were an "early torque" advocate.

                                At which point my point would've been, how the hell does that amount of elbow action happen without bathead movement when you are "torquing the handle" at this point in the swing.........

                                OK, then I agree, but it's the movement of the upper arm that causes the elbow to increase distance from the bathead, not the forearm.

                                ???

                                Comment

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