16 year old swing evaluation

[AltaLomaStorm]

Here are a couple of swings (live pitching and soft toss) of a co-worker's son. He is 16 and a junior on his high school's varsity team. His dad is looking for comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4qiYPhTfc (live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVyasMvwTBI (soft toss)

Thanks, Marty

[jbooth]

Here are a couple of swings (live pitching and soft toss) of a co-worker's son. He is 16 and a junior on his high school's varsity team. His dad is looking for comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4qiYPhTfc (live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVyasMvwTBI (soft toss)

Thanks, Marty

His use of the upper body is pretty good, but he might as well sit on his knees and hit. His lower body is contributing absolutely nothing to his swing.

He needs to stop swaying back and setting his entire body over his back leg. The back knee should ALWAYS be slightly in front of the back foot, not vertically straight above it, and the head should be in front of the knee. The head shouldn't get over the back foot.

You feel pressure on the back foot, but you don't get over it. And, the pressure should be on inside half of the back foot. And, you rotate off the back side. He slides forward trying desperately to get to the front foot, but there's too much weight, too far back, to get going quickly. The lower half is so slow that he has to start the bat moving before he can get the weight shifted.

And, he just slides sideways and the lower half rotates as result of the shoulders turning, when it should be the hip rotation that forces the shoulder rotation.

Basically, he uses his arms well, but is just an arm-swinger.

Note how Tejada and Soriano's heads stay in front of the back foot even though both have the style of lifting the front leg quite high. They stay forward even when they lift the front leg and support their weight on the back foot.

He needs to stay in front of the back foot, and rotate into the front foot, not slide onto it.

[Baseball gLove]

Also, his front foot is closing off his hips. At most his feet should range from a parallel stance to the front foot giving him a slightly open stance. The straight back leg is the usual result of bad squash-the-bug advice.

[Deemax]

ALS, When he loads back have him make an effort to keep his weight on the inside of his back foot.

[Mark H]

Yeah he gets too far back and his momentum development is non standard (reminds me of Michelle Smith of Stanford's momentum development) and some of the soft toss swings suck but guys, I count a five frame swing. You don't get there without doing a lot of things right. This is, IMO, an example of good function with some form that makes everything look ugly at first glance. Could he develop more of a lead with the hip? Yeah it's kind of one piece rotation but hey, not a bad place to start. Especially considering he's pretty @#$% quick. Now if one of you video wizards tell me this is not 30fps I'll have to reconsider but again, you don't get to five frames without doing a lot right. What are his game results and is the first swing typically what you see in games against good pitching? I wouldn't be surprised if he has difficulty timing that long momentum develop movement but once he gets started rotating he's quick.

[Jake Patterson]

Head.... Watch his head relative to the screen. I would seperate moving the hands back some while moving the front leg forward somewhat closed while keeping the head still.

Great back yard..

[AltaLomaStorm]

Great back yard..

LOL Thanks!

It was a lot nicer before Maggie, our 10 month old Yellow Lab claimed it as hers. She even has a nice little hole chewed in one corner of the cage so she can get in and out. Anyone want a lab??????

[Mark H]

Head.... Watch his head relative to the screen. I would seperate moving the hands back some while moving the front leg forward somewhat closed while keeping the head still.

Great back yard..

Not that I wouldn't make some changes here but as you look at the swing, nothing really happens before about four or five frames before the back knee starts turning in IMO. Keep that in mind as you evaluate.

[jbooth]

Yeah he gets too far back and his momentum development is non standard (reminds me of Michelle Smith of Stanford's momentum development) and some of the soft toss swings suck but guys, I count a five frame swing. You don't get there without doing a lot of things right. This is, IMO, an example of good function with some form that makes everything look ugly at first glance. Could he develop more of a lead with the hip? Yeah it's kind of one piece rotation but hey, not a bad place to start. Especially considering he's pretty @#$% quick. Now if one of you video wizards tell me this is not 30fps I'll have to reconsider but again, you don't get to five frames without doing a lot right. What are his game results and is the first swing typically what you see in games against good pitching? I wouldn't be surprised if he has difficulty timing that long momentum develop movement but once he gets started rotating he's quick.

You can move a bat to the ball in 5 frames from your knees. A lot of people can get to the ball on time. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't have much power. He has a Tony Gwynn type swing that starts with the top.

And, I stated that I thought his upper body looked good.

5 frames is a test of how quickly you can get to the ball, but force = mass * acceleration. When you swing only from the top the "mass" is much less although the "acceleration" is the same. There is no transfer of the energy from the lower body mass to the bathead. To a physicist, what I just stated is not precisely accurate, but it is a simple explanation. It's why Gwynn had no power. He got to the ball in 5 frames, but it didn't go very far. If you don't get the hips leading the way, the ball isn't likely to get out of the park.

Hitting it out of the park doesn't have to be the goal, but if you want to get signed by a pro team, you better at least be CAPABLE of hitting it out, even if you aren't EXPECTED to hit it out often. David Eckstein isn't expected to hit it out, but he is capable of doing it.

[Jake Patterson]

Not that I wouldn't make some changes here but as you look at the swing, nothing really happens before about four or five frames before the back knee starts turning in IMO. Keep that in mind as you evaluate.

Well then... Viewing it from a posture standpoint do you feel his posture at launch is good?? Look at around 29-32 sec

[Swing Coach]

Great comments by everybody. I see this all the time with my students....they just don't realize that the hips power the swing. This boy needs to watch the video of soriano and look at his hip turn compared to his and he will see that his is way less explosive and doesn't get near as far as Soriano. It will take a lot of practice to get the hips to work that way because he has not practiced stretching those muscles. But it is so important to get there or his swing has no chance of being even close to elite.

SC

[Mark H]

You can move a bat to the ball in 5 frames from your knees. A lot of people can get to the ball on time. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't have much power. He has a Tony Gwynn type swing that starts with the top.

And, I stated that I thought his upper body looked good.

5 frames is a test of how quickly you can get to the ball, but force = mass * acceleration. When you swing only from the top the "mass" is much less although the "acceleration" is the same. There is no transfer of the energy from the lower body mass to the bathead. To a physicist, what I just stated is not precisely accurate, but it is a simple explanation. It's why Gwynn had no power. He got to the ball in 5 frames, but it didn't go very far. If you don't get the hips leading the way, the ball isn't likely to get out of the park.

Hitting it out of the park doesn't have to be the goal, but if you want to get signed by a pro team, you better at least be CAPABLE of hitting it out, even if you aren't EXPECTED to hit it out often. David Eckstein isn't expected to hit it out, but he is capable of doing it.

I agree it could be better, that it's not a big league swing. But I would have bet he hits, which I've already heard. I don't think he leaves the hips behind. I think he rotates as a unit which accounts for part of the difference in rotation between him and a big leaguer. But he's quick from decision to contact and he's in plane so I'm not surprised he hits. Whether to change would depend on his goals. At this age, changing is a HUGE long term commitment and a risk when you already have a very effective swing. If high school and maybe D3 college is in the picture, I'd just tell him to hit and enjoy the game. If he wants more, he's got a pretty darn good base to build from I think if he can keep the good while making some changes. If.

[Mark H]

Well then... Viewing it from a posture standpoint do you feel his posture at launch is good?? Look at around 29-32 sec

He could tilt over and get in a little more athletic position judging it from this angle but I'd rather see from behind the catcher.

[jbooth]

I agree it could be better, that it's not a big league swing. But I would have bet he hits, which I've already heard. I don't think he leaves the hips behind. I think he rotates as a unit which accounts for part of the difference in rotation between him and a big leaguer. But he's quick from decision to contact and he's in plane so I'm not surprised he hits. Whether to change would depend on his goals. At this age, changing is a HUGE long term commitment and a risk when you already have a very effective swing. If high school and maybe D3 college is in the picture, I'd just tell him to hit and enjoy the game. If he wants more, he's got a pretty darn good base to build from I think if he can keep the good while making some changes. If.

He's not even turning as a unit. His hips are behind his hands. I don't doubt that he can hit for average, but that swing will have trouble with hard throwers who also have a good change up.

And, changing isn't a HUGE deal. I've changed kids in 5 to 10 lessons, IF they commit to working hard every day, and if the first 5 lessons are on consecutive days. If they space out the lessons and don't work hard then it doesn't work out well.

[Rydell]

First of all, he must fix his footwork. Front foot @ 45, back foot turned in to 90 degrees or even turned in slightly more. Secondly, tell him to practice squaring up on a padded pole or tree. This action will help sync up his arms w/his slowish body rotation.