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Price Vs. Technology in New Bats

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  • hellborn
    replied
    Originally posted by skipper5
    re: broken bats

    Something I can't figure out: when I was growing up in the wood bat era, there wasn't much money around--a lot of solidly middle class families had one car instead of two, placing a long-distance phone call was a big deal, and very few people flew on airliners.

    Baseball was the true national pastime in those years. How could those families afford the cost of replacing all the wooden bats that supposedly make wood bats financially impractical?
    My take is that store bats mostly had really thick handles then...if you have a bat with a 1.25 to 1.5 inch handle, it's going to pretty hard to break it!

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  • hellborn
    replied
    My understanding was that most of the fancy bat technology went into making larger sweet spots. A quick 2 bat sweet spot check (hold big bat to be tested by the knob with 2 fingers, use a small bat to tap up and down the barrel) will show you that the heart of the sweet spot of a wood bat is quite small. All the trampoline/flex control stuff in a big $$$ bat is trying to make that spot wider.
    To me, this is the big shock in going from metal/composite to wood...you have a very small spot with which to really power the ball with wood, and players who aren't used to them won't have the skill to apply that spot to the ball consistently.

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  • Twitch5
    replied
    Originally posted by skipper5
    As an old-fashioned traditionalist, I'd like to see HS baseball return to its roots by banning composites and returning the "ping" of metal.
    As an old-school traditionalist when it comes to baseball, I would, as many here would, like a return to wood bats. The original discussions on cost savings with metal bats was when metal bats were less than $100, nowadays, you could have an arsenal of 6-8 wood bats for the price of a composite. Plus, I'm not sure the newer metal/composite bats are even lasting a full season up here in the frigid upper Midwest!!!!!

    What about a compromise? I don't see any reason why at least HS and college couldn't switch over to the wood composite bats. Most people would only go through two a season, and you would still be ahead the cost of one $400 composite bat.

    Twitch5

    Leave a comment:


  • jimmies21
    replied
    Originally posted by BMH View Post
    Just passing through.
    BMH,

    How does the TPX bats you guys made in 1997 (the extended barrel 2 3/4") available to -5oz, compare with some of the bats today.

    1997 was my last year of college and those bats were amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jake Patterson
    replied
    Originally posted by BMH View Post
    It has more to do with processes and cost of materials than the "evil" bat manufacturer's trying to gouge people.
    It's not you as much as it is the capatalistic environment in which the game is played. You can make any bat you choose to make and if you can get parents to fess up $400.00 good for you...

    What I hate as a coach is good bat technology makes a great hitter better and an average hitter average and a bad hitter worse. They solve no problems and mask those that need correcting. Like clock work I had a parent (Dad who thought Jr. was a good player because he had him hitting .675 on his LL team) ask me why Jr. is struggling while hitting this year.

    "Here's your sign..."

    Leave a comment:


  • hawkiirock
    replied
    why not just ban metal and go to wood? When would it stop?
    Originally posted by skipper5
    It would end if we made HS and college batters use metal bats, ie, ban composites. Metal bats had peaked.

    As an old-fashioned traditionalist, I'd like to see HS baseball return to its roots by banning composites and returning the "ping" of metal.

    Leave a comment:


  • DukeK
    replied
    I'm not saying technology doesnt help, it helps those who can use it
    I bought my son a Demarini Voodoo last year and then also picked up an Easton Rebel on sale at Sports Authority for like $70 for him to use in the cages. He prefers the Rebel and used it all of last year and still uses it this year. He hit the only 2 home runs on his team last year and has probably the longest hit ball on his team this year (was in a practice). He's not an All Star or even close but just happens to get ahold of one every once in a while. So, like photographers say about cameras - "it ain't the bat, it's the batter".

    Leave a comment:


  • BMH
    replied
    Originally posted by Twitch5 View Post
    I just looked at the new EastBay baseball catalog. It listed all kinds of NEW composite bats from all manufacturers that are being released in the next 1-2 months. It seems like all the main bat companies have at least 3-4 different bats with prices on the north side of $350!!!!! I think I read about something about one of the bats that they are touting as a "3-piece" bat.

    When is it all going to end!!!!!!!!! I used to laugh at the hockey parents and the equipment costs that they incurred... Now baseball isn't any better.


    Twitch5
    It has more to do with processes and cost of materials than the "evil" bat manufacturer's trying to gouge people. You used Hockey as an example, most of the "latest & greatest" sticks were made using composite materials that were formed by hand. There are machines out there to do the same thing but your margins in Hockey are horrible and it would take forever to recoup the machine costs so most companies still do most processes by hand. The reject rate on Hockey sticks is horrible, ours was around 35%, so naturally it drove the price of the stick up.

    As for baseball, these are done by machine but the cost of materials is going up. Most of the "composite materials" used for making these bats have ingredients made from petroleum. Three years ago are composites cost us $25 a pound, it's now up to $94 a pound. God bless the weak dollar and the airline industry.

    Leave a comment:


  • freddy
    replied
    Originally posted by BMH View Post
    Just passing through.
    This topic reminds me of a funny story, myself and two pals are just about to tee off this guy runs over asks can I join you, we say sure no problem. He comes to the tee with apx 5000.00 worth of clubs, dressed to the 10's, We figure he's a good golfer and he better be as all 3 of us are single digit handicaps. After 9 holes he was around 50 we were around 40 guess what he did after 9holes...HE QUIT......I'm not saying technology doesnt help, it helps those who can use it

    Leave a comment:


  • BMH
    replied
    Just passing through.
    Last edited by BMH; 04-08-2008, 08:20 PM. Reason: I keep telling myself to stay out of these threads...

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilliesPhan22
    replied
    Take the 375.00 and buy a wood bat and some hitting lessons. Its all about the "golfer's syndrome." Take the money you would spend on a new driver and buy lessons instead. The driver alone will not make you better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jake Patterson
    replied
    Originally posted by PhillsPhan11 View Post
    Well there is a certain exit speed that the bats cannot exceed so if the bats are BESR certified they will have the same exit speed.
    There are actually two... BESR and BPF, but both have significant flaws in that they are poorly monitored and do not include performance over time. So what the Mfg'ers do is develop technology that improves BESR over time. I am certain you have heard of the bat rolling machines that are making their way to baseball.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhillsPhan11
    replied
    Well there is a certain exit speed that the bats cannot exceed so if the bats are BESR certified they will have the same exit speed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jake Patterson
    replied
    Originally posted by PhillsPhan11 View Post
    well that's kind of what I meant the bat companies keep coming up with new technologies which are basically the same as the previous technologies because they really can't do anything to make the bats hit further because that would break BESR rules. That's how they keep increasing the prices.
    They have full-time staff whose job is develop ways to stay ahead of the rules and the ruling bodies ability to monitor. I wonder if there has ever been a comprehensive study that identifies true improvement in overall player performance.

    I feel it hurts...

    Leave a comment:


  • PhillsPhan11
    replied
    well that's kind of what I meant the bat companies keep coming up with new technologies which are basically the same as the previous technologies because they really can't do anything to make the bats hit further because that would break BESR rules. That's how they keep increasing the prices.

    Leave a comment:

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