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Holding runners on - slide step or short leg kick

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  • Holding runners on - slide step or short leg kick

    I have my opinion but I'll ask yours first.

    Let's take a kid who during a normal windup (none on base) has a standard leg kick (lift). With runners on base the player goes to the stretch and uses a quicker version of the leg kick (lift) and delivers to the plate.

    -- OR --

    Let's take a kid who during a normal windup (none on base) has a standard leg kick (lift). With runners on base the player goes to the stretch and uses a slide step and delivers to the plate.

    Which of these do you think is correct. Assume normal situation in a game, one player on first, tie game, 4th inning, etc. Nothing special about the situation.

  • #2
    Our coaches teach our pitchers to slide step only when they feel there is a threat of someone stealing. If the kid on first isn't fast or if you know the pitch is more important on counts like 2-0, 3-1, 3-2, 3-0... then its more important to make the right pitch than worrying about the runner. If you can make the pitch from the slide step then do it, but most pitchers I know are alot more consistent with the leg kick. You have to mix it up, keep runners off gaurd but play it smart.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CoachHenry View Post
      I have my opinion but I'll ask yours first.

      Let's take a kid who during a normal windup (none on base) has a standard leg kick (lift). With runners on base the player goes to the stretch and uses a quicker version of the leg kick (lift) and delivers to the plate.

      -- OR --

      Let's take a kid who during a normal windup (none on base) has a standard leg kick (lift). With runners on base the player goes to the stretch and uses a slide step and delivers to the plate.

      Which of these do you think is correct. Assume normal situation in a game, one player on first, tie game, 4th inning, etc. Nothing special about the situation.


      or we can make this REAL easy,,name on hall of fame pitcher that used the slide step

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wogdoggy View Post
        or we can make this REAL easy,,name on hall of fame pitcher that used the slide step
        I don't know if any did or didn't. I'm guessing by your post that none did. If none did why not?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CoachHenry View Post
          I don't know if any did or didn't. I'm guessing by your post that none did. If none did why not?
          probably beacuse it causes you to rush ,,,and the fact that the base isnt stolen or not because of the slide step..

          Comment


          • #6
            I totally disagree... as a catcher, pitchers don't even give us a chance if they always have a leg kick. At any level if the coach sees the pitcher has a leg kick and no slide step, we are stealing on HIM not the catcher all day. The only way around it is to throw 90+ mph ... all the time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MrSurprise View Post
              I totally disagree... as a catcher, pitchers don't even give us a chance if they always have a leg kick. At any level if the coach sees the pitcher has a leg kick and no slide step, we are stealing on HIM not the catcher all day. The only way around it is to throw 90+ mph ... all the time.
              yeah ok ....so unless your throwin 90 your gonna make it huh? so i'll tell my kid to steal on every pitch cause the pitcher cant throw 90? CROCK

              again what pro hall of fammer used the slide step,,???

              Comment


              • #8
                Why I advocate pitching with a modified slide step
                When pitching from the stretch, you've got to get the baseball to the plate quickly and efficiently without losing pitch velocity. Many pitchers use a slide step to accomplish this. But often the true slide step negatively affects control and causes early arm fatigue because the lower half takes off toward the plate before the throwing arm can get into a nice high-cocked position. With a true slide step, the throwing arm plays a constant game of catch-up. You'll often hear scouts describe pitchers who throw with a true slide step as throwing "all arm," which isn't great.

                That's why I recommend -- and used, in college and in the Chicago Cubs organization -- a modified slide step. This pitching technique does take slightly longer to unload a pitch than with a true slide step, because you're bringing your front knee back more. But it is much quicker than a normal leg lift, and it allows you to transfer your weight to the back foot and separate your hands quicker, which will allow you to get on top of the baseball and throw on a nice downward angle with good velocity.

                With a modified slide step, you'll rock back quickly transferring your weight up against the posting leg as you break the lead knee back, NOT up. Think: knee to knee. You want to bring your front knee back to just in front of the posting knee. Then you slide step outward.

                This action helps to keep your weight back and helps you not rush. Also, on that first knee movement, you'll break your hands, allowing you to get into a high-cocked position before foot plant. By doing this, you can use your normal arm action, which may help you have better control out of the stretch.

                With the true slide step, you may get more movement on your fastball, because you're throwing the baseball from a lower arm angle. But you sacrifice pitching velocity and arm fatigue for it.

                Most left-handed pitchers don't develop a slide step, but I've come to believe that it's a very efficient technique to do the modified slide step on occasion for lefties. With a runner on base, the modified slide step presents another read for the base runner. It also allows you to unload the baseball quickly and to vary your motion.

                A lefty should also develop a pickoff move off the modified slide step. Just break the hands quickly and slide step with a 45-degree angle toward first base. This combined with a good step-back move makes it real difficult for a runner to get a consistent read on the left-hand pitcher.


                Quote from Steven Ellis http://www.stevenellis.com/steven_el.../06/index.html
                Last edited by Drill; 04-15-2008, 10:04 AM.
                Yogi Berra was asked by a reporter "How do you catch a knuckle ball?" He came right back and said "When it stops rolling"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drill View Post
                  Why I advocate pitching with a modified slide step
                  When pitching from the stretch, you've got to get the baseball to the plate quickly and efficiently without losing pitch velocity. Many pitchers use a slide step to accomplish this. But often the true slide step negatively affects control and causes early arm fatigue because the lower half takes off toward the plate before the throwing arm can get into a nice high-cocked position. With a true slide step, the throwing arm plays a constant game of catch-up. You'll often hear scouts describe pitchers who throw with a true slide step as throwing "all arm," which isn't great.

                  That's why I recommend -- and used, in college and in the Chicago Cubs organization -- a modified slide step. This pitching technique does take slightly longer to unload a pitch than with a true slide step, because you're bringing your front knee back more. But it is much quicker than a normal leg lift, and it allows you to transfer your weight to the back foot and separate your hands quicker, which will allow you to get on top of the baseball and throw on a nice downward angle with good velocity.

                  With a modified slide step, you'll rock back quickly transferring your weight up against the posting leg as you break the lead knee back, NOT up. Think: knee to knee. You want to bring your front knee back to just in front of the posting knee. Then you slide step outward.

                  This action helps to keep your weight back and helps you not rush. Also, on that first knee movement, you'll break your hands, allowing you to get into a high-cocked position before foot plant. By doing this, you can use your normal arm action, which may help you have better control out of the stretch.

                  With the true slide step, you may get more movement on your fastball, because you're throwing the baseball from a lower arm angle. But you sacrifice pitching velocity and arm fatigue for it.

                  Most left-handed pitchers don't develop a slide step, but I've come to believe that it's a very efficient technique to do the modified slide step on occasion for lefties. With a runner on base, the modified slide step presents another read for the base runner. It also allows you to unload the baseball quickly and to vary your motion.

                  A lefty should also develop a pickoff move off the modified slide step. Just break the hands quickly and slide step with a 45-degree angle toward first base. This combined with a good step-back move makes it real difficult for a runner to get a consistent read on the left-hand pitcher.


                  Quote from Steven Ellis http://www.stevenellis.com/steven_el.../06/index.html


                  NO NEED !...again one hof er who incorporated a slide step???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And just how many kids that are pitching right now are going to be hall of famers??? We aren't talking about hall of fame pitchers here. Just because Barry Bonds and David Ortiz hit bombs left handed doesn't mean we should all just hit left handed. These are KIDS not PROFESSIONALS, name one team in the pros that is any where as aggressive on the base paths as any pony league, high school, or college team. You can let your pitchers pitch with the high leg kick all they want but when college coaches come look at them and ask them to mix in a slide step and the kid tells them their coach says its useless, make sure you own up to your mistakes.

                    If you are a hall of fame pitcher, coaches don't care if runners steal on you, you make pitchers where it doesn't matter...
                    Last edited by MrSurprise; 04-15-2008, 03:33 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's important the pitcher be quick to the plate. Often kids have long, sweeping leg motions. When they get older this has to be changed. The long, sweeping motion makes them slow to the plate. This isn't a slide step. It's changing the pitcher's motion altogether. Joe Kerrigan (former MLB pitching coach) messed up all the Phillies pitchers one season by enforcing the slide step.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Both. A good basestealer will get the timing down eventually, if you use the same motion over and over again. Use both to throw in a wrinkle.

                        Drill had some great points, too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
                          It's important the pitcher be quick to the plate. Often kids have long, sweeping leg motions. When they get older this has to be changed. The long, sweeping motion makes them slow to the plate. This isn't a slide step. It's changing the pitcher's motion altogether. Joe Kerrigan (former MLB pitching coach) messed up all the Phillies pitchers one season by enforcing the slide step.
                          I agree. However, my catchers call for a slide step when they think the runner has a good chance of stealing. It doesn't happen often, but it is nice to have in the toolbox. Lots of batteries in the MLB have this signal.
                          Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wogdoggy View Post
                            probably beacuse it causes you to rush ,,,and the fact that the base isnt stolen or not because of the slide step..
                            As wogdoggy says, it's very easy to develop a timing problem (e.g rushing) if you only occasionally go from the slide step. That is one reason why I teach all of my guys to go from the Set position.

                            I also thionk it's more important to focus on the batter than the runner, within reason.
                            Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                            I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Bottom line, the hitter is priority #1. So, I keep it easy with our kids and simply tell them to keep on eye on the runner, but ultimately put the focus on the hitter and do whatever it takes to throw strikes, keep the ball down, and get the hitter out.

                              Comment

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