Tonight is our first game! Any tips ??

[spiritandtruth]

Ok tonight is our first game..in a few hours. Any quick tips from anyone?

I sure would be grateful.

I do have a couple of questions.

Here's one scenario...

My trusty assistant coach ( who I'm sure knows more about baseball than me ) brought up something to me he noticed the other day.

So you've got a kid on first and third. Mind you this is little league.

Does my son ALWAYS just let the kid on first steal second base? 'Cause nearly always the guy is going to try to go home from third if we try to pick off the kid from second. My assistant told me that they just always let 'em steal. I said, "there just seems to be something inherently wrong with that. I hate that."

I then asked him...."you mean to tell me that they do that in the big leagues too....no way?"

He said, "well you can't get the ball to second and then back to home fast enough so yeh they do."

I just couldn't believe that they do that in the pros. At any rate...whatever the case...what should I be telling my kids? We have a game tonight and for now I'm just going to tell my son to let the kid on first steal second if there's a guy on third. My son's arm isn't strong enough to throw 'em out very often unfortunately.

Also, does batting order really matter? I have about 4 kids that can put it over our fence. I only have one kid who just flat can't hit the ball. Should he be batting last typically?

Any other tips will be greatly appreciated!

thanks in advance,
Ken

[LAball]

Well in my son's Pony is U10 and 7 of 10 times the throw from the catcher is 2nd base misses and the runner will steal 3rd also. On top of that may 2 of 10 they will try to pick the runner off at third after after the error at second and yahoo we score. Basicly throwing and catching is poor in LL especially under pressure. The funniest part is when when the coaches yell at the kids and say you got to catch / throw the ball. You Cant do that KID!. but its like well duh of course the kids know that, they dont do it on purpose.



Our team has very aggressive base running, we've been thrown out many times, but with many tries, I think our kids learn faster.

[TG Coach]

I just couldn't believe that they do that in the pros.

Pros don't steal second just because there's a runner on third. With two fundamentally sound pros with strong arms on the play they would probably throw out both runners in most cases. By high school, good high school teams can handle this play defensively.

In LL, we had a strong armed catcher and a strong armed shortstop. No one tried to steal on us. Our two catchers would throw to the second baseman just coming straight forward from his position. The throw would still be ahead of the runner. We got DP's the two times teams tried the double steal. No one ever attempted after that.

You need to set up four plays with signals so everyone involved knows where to be:

1) catcher throws through
2) catcher throws to middle infielder charging to cut off the throw
3) catcher throws hard to pitcher who looks to see if the runner broke off third
4) catcher pump fakes to second and checks to see if the runner broke off third

If I didn't have a great catcher and my pitcher isn't dominating, if there are none or one out I'd assume the runner on third is going to score somehow before we get three outs. I go for the out at second. In LL when there isn't lights out pitching who will get 10-14 K's take the outs.

[jbooth]

Ok tonight is our first game..in a few hours. Any quick tips from anyone?

I sure would be grateful.

I do have a couple of questions.

Here's one scenario...

My trusty assistant coach ( who I'm sure knows more about baseball than me ) brought up something to me he noticed the other day.

So you've got a kid on first and third. Mind you this is little league.

Does my son ALWAYS just let the kid on first steal second base? 'Cause nearly always the guy is going to try to go home from third if we try to pick off the kid from second. My assistant told me that they just always let 'em steal. I said, "there just seems to be something inherently wrong with that. I hate that."

I then asked him...."you mean to tell me that they do that in the big leagues too....no way?"

He said, "well you can't get the ball to second and then back to home fast enough so yeh they do."

I just couldn't believe that they do that in the pros. At any rate...whatever the case...what should I be telling my kids? We have a game tonight and for now I'm just going to tell my son to let the kid on first steal second if there's a guy on third. My son's arm isn't strong enough to throw 'em out very often unfortunately.

Also, does batting order really matter? I have about 4 kids that can put it over our fence. I only have one kid who just flat can't hit the ball. Should he be batting last typically?

Any other tips will be greatly appreciated!

thanks in advance,
Ken

In pro ball, what is done with an R1 and R3 situation depends on the game situation. ie Score, inning, number of outs, who is up, who is on third, etc. In many situations they just let R1 take second, but OTOH, in MLB R1 doesn't ALWAYS try for second with R3, because an MLB catcher CAN throw down and get the runner, and the SS or 2B, can get the ball back to home. If R1 isn't normally a base stealer, he probably won't steal with an R3 either. They also have plays where the catcher throws down, but not intending to get R1, but rather the infielder cuts in and simply catches the throw with the intent of playing on R3 if he leads off too far, or goes home. The play is actually on R3, not R1. This would be done in a situation where they don't care if R1 gets to second.

If it's the top of the 8th inning with two outs, and you're the home team, and you have a 4 run lead, you probably don't care if R1 takes second. OTOH, with that kind of lead, you can afford to give up a run, so you may play on R1 if he goes. There are many scenarios and factors in MLB, so the bottom line answer to your question about the pros is; no, they don't always let R1 take second.

A runner on second in pro ball, is in scoring position. So, basically it boils down to whether the game situation deems it important to keep R1 out of scoring position, or not, and if it matters whether R3 scores or not. They are skilled enough to make a play on either or both if they need to.

[Ursa Major]

You don't say the age of your kids, which is critical. If they're 9 to 11 or in that range, it's a risky play to make the throw. Usually you work some kind of play into your repertoire as the season goes on. At first, I'd at least pump fake to second to see if you draw a reaction. Then maybe try a hard throw to the pitcher with the catcher "selling" it like it's a throw to second. Then set up a cutoff by the shortstop (your best bet, because he's usually the most solid infielder). And, since they can't take leads in LL, I'd try to nail the guy if there's two outs and he's slow. Have a signal for that one, though the base should be covered every time anyway.

At that age level, I don't like it when coaches ignore what later will be smart baseball plays just because kids might screw it up at this level. Let 'em try it and learn from their mistakes. And when they do nail a guy, it's a lot of fun for the whole team. Sometimes it's the easiest 'caught stealing' you'll ever get, as the runner (R1) will assume that there won't be a play and will just jog down to second. And maybe you'll get a rep as a team that will try the throw, so coaches might not send their slower runners against you.

And Jim's absolutely right about the game situation issue. If you've got a big lead in the last inning or next-to-last inning, it doesn't make any difference if the guy advances a base on you or scores. So, go ahead and take a gamble on any defensive play. Outs are what are critical then. The only risk is that, if the kids throw the ball all over the field, the rest of the inning may become unraveled.

[jbolt_2000]

I coach 9-10 y/o Little League. We get into 1st and 3rd defense all the time. What have my kids do is one of 4 things (which some I learned from this site!):

1) Let the runner go to second, but throw to the short stop that has closed in just about 5 feet behind the pitcher and to his right. This confuses the runner (and 3rd base coach) into thinking that it was a bad throw. Then the short stop throws back home to get the tag out.

2) Throw a bullet to the pitchers head and the runner at third usually goes. The throw MUST look like it is going to second base. The pitcher either runs towards the runner or throws to the catcher for the tag out.

3) Fake to second and look for the throw to third. This does not always fool them, but it helps as a coach to see what the runner does for next time.

4) If we are up on runs and need outs I just have them throw to second for the possible out. Our starting catcher is real good and gets the outs about 60-70 percent of the time.

Another option I have seen here was to throw to the second baseman playing the line to tag the runner and then throw home, but it was still too far for the second baseman to catch and throw home. The runner at first was usually safe.

Keep in mind we practiced this like crazy to see what works and what doesn't. I have three good catchers and only one of them am I confident in doing all four plays. The other two we usually just go with the throw to the pitcher and back.

The best out of all four (if its a close game and we dont want them to score)??? It is the throw to the pitcher. We got three outs in one game this way. I guess the third base coach just wasn't able to figure it out.

The other thing I do is let the players call the plays on the field. I give them the numbered play, and the catcher walks out and gives the sign to which one we are running. They seem to like this as it gives them more control of the game. Again, this takes practice.


As for batting order: I have 14 kids on the team and we have a continuous batting order (all 14 kids bat regardless of whether they are sitting or not). This makes it real difficult to set the line up, but what I have done has worked out pretty well.

It usually goes like this: first 3 batters are top batters, get on base and score type players. the next two are ok batters, few hits, but don't swing at wild pitches either (means they walk alot). The next two or so are not so great hitters (we usually get a couple of stikeouts or outs at first here). The next few are some more good hitters and after that a few OK, then we close it out with our bad hitters.

With this set up it has worked well for us. It also allows me to get some of the poor hitters up in the line up around 5,6 and 7 so they dont feel they hit last everytime. It then gives me a chance to get a couple of good bats out of our players each inning. Anyways, by the third inning or so we are starting off with the number 7 or batter or so, so it allows us to continue with a roation of a few guys on and a few guys out, a few guys on and a few guys out.

[Drill]

plenty of sunflower seeds and water


drill

[jbolt_2000]

Unless you have an extraordinarily talented LL 11-12 Majors team and/or keep your most talented players in fixed position--, I would almost always concede the stolen 2nd base in a first a third situation.

Whether you have lots of practices or only a few, practice time is limited--it's finite.

I don't think it's worth practicing tricky first-and-third defenses, especially when the odds may be slim that you'll have your best catcher and best SS on the field at the same time to make the play happen when it counts.

Around here, at least, the day has passed when LL keeps the best players in fixed positions for 6 innings.

There's lots of other fundamental baseball that's more important to practice than first-and-thirds in LL, considering limited practice time.

Can HS catchers throw through to second and get the ball back to home in time? Reliably? I haven't seen it. I'm not in Calif.or Texas or Cobb county or whatever, I'm out there in the baseball hinterlands. But if there are 20,000 HS baseball programs in the country, I bet that only a couple thousand can reliably throw all the way through and return the ball home in time to nail the runner.

All the other plays are trick plays designed to fool sleepy third base coaches.
(sometimes that's me, admittedly).

For my team, we don't have a ton of practice. But we do these plays with the few that I know can accomplish the majority of the time. The idea of course is to catch the sleeping third base coach or runner.

We've practiced the plays several times, but only in little 5-10 minute increments. Just to get the idea down for the players. I don't believe it is some elaborate play that these kids are too young for. I think it is one of those extra plays that the kids learn when not taking grounders and fly balls.

Plus, it breaks up the monotamy of practice sometimes. I have three catchers, several pitchers, a couple third basemans and short stops. We only do this with those I know can do it. The others that are still learning, are doing just that...learning. No need to get into extra plays, when they NEED to work on grounders and flys.

[jbolt_2000]

Can HS catchers throw through to second and get the ball back to home in time? Reliably? I haven't seen it. I'm not in Calif.or Texas or Cobb county or whatever, I'm out there in the baseball hinterlands. But if there are 20,000 HS baseball programs in the country, I bet that only a couple thousand can reliably throw all the way through and return the ball home in time to nail the runner.

I agree with this. If we throw to second, we are conceding the run at home. We only throw to second if we can afford the extra run and try to get that out at second.