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Swing Critique (Post elbow surgery)

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  • Swing Critique (Post elbow surgery)

    My son is at the three month mark of his elbow surgery (fracture of the medial epicondyle growth plate), and just received OK from doctor and PT to begin interval throwing program and batting (tee work only).
    I videotaped his swing this past weekend, and was hoping to get some constructive criticism, pointers, etc.

    Keep in mind that he hasn't swung a bat (two-handed) in over three months and is still a little weak in his right arm. With that said, I do believe that my son has an unique opportunity to tweak his swing and correct some minor flaws before they become part of muscle memory again.

    What I noticed (as compared to what I remember of his pre-injury swing):

    1.) bat becomes a little "loose" immediately prior to initiating his shoulder turn -- this may be a reflection of his current right-arm strength.

    2.) he seems to have more forward travel in his hips/center, rather than rotation along his center. He still seems to OK with his weight transfer, but I see more forward motion in his swing than before.

    3.) Something different about his front shoulder/lead arm that I can't quite pinpoint.

    Any help with his swing would be greatly appreciated. I keep telling my son that a potential "silver lining" to his injury may be the ability to correct some minor flaws in his swing and/or pitching motion, before these flaws become "ingrained" again. He seems to be onboard with this, so any and all swing critiques would be helpful and appreciated. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

    Twitch5


    http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/m...t=23b7c4cf.pbr

  • #2
    I probably should add that we are looking for positives about his swing as well. What 15-year old isn't looking for "atta-boys"! Any analysis of his swing (positive or negative) is greatly appreciated.

    Twitch5

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Twitch5 View Post
      My son is at the three month mark of his elbow surgery (fracture of the medial epicondyle growth plate), and just received OK from doctor and PT to begin interval throwing program and batting (tee work only).
      I videotaped his swing this past weekend, and was hoping to get some constructive criticism, pointers, etc.

      Keep in mind that he hasn't swung a bat (two-handed) in over three months and is still a little weak in his right arm. With that said, I do believe that my son has an unique opportunity to tweak his swing and correct some minor flaws before they become part of muscle memory again.

      What I noticed (as compared to what I remember of his pre-injury swing):

      1.) bat becomes a little "loose" immediately prior to initiating his shoulder turn -- this may be a reflection of his current right-arm strength.

      2.) he seems to have more forward travel in his hips/center, rather than rotation along his center. He still seems to OK with his weight transfer, but I see more forward motion in his swing than before.

      3.) Something different about his front shoulder/lead arm that I can't quite pinpoint.

      Any help with his swing would be greatly appreciated. I keep telling my son that a potential "silver lining" to his injury may be the ability to correct some minor flaws in his swing and/or pitching motion, before these flaws become "ingrained" again. He seems to be onboard with this, so any and all swing critiques would be helpful and appreciated. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

      Twitch5


      http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/m...t=23b7c4cf.pbr
      I think everything above the waist looks pretty good, but I don't like his lower body action. He's not creating any power from the leg/hip action. His leg/hip action is not powering rotation of the torso.

      Comment


      • #4
        I like his knuckle knocker grip, It seems thats what he has or attemps to have. I tried the front ankle up technique, which was good for the not so talented son, its not good for high levels. It may be because you end up realy trying to push the front heel down by externaly rotating the front hip, instead of letting the front leg drop down like a real step.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think his swing looks pretty good for his age. He is old enough, however, to get in a rythmn with his step and swing. No high level swing "gets the step out of the way" and then swings in a totally separate move. Someone has taught him this because it is not natural. Start working on him stepping to hit. THis will create some positive momentum into his rotation. He knows he needs this and that is why his hips slide toward the pitcher before his swing. This forward core movement is a necessary move, but it needs to take place prior to his heel dropping. The swing can be broken down into two simple parts for this discussion. 1. Positive move (stride) toward the pitcher to toe touch. 2. Rotation.
          Have him do walk-up drills to the tee where he can feel himself putting it all together. This lack of forward movement is also why he has trouble extending to a "v" after contact, which will effect power. Just remember....when (the heel) comes down his forward movement is over and the hip rotation starts. Make sure he keeps his hands back while his hips begin to rotate and you will see a lot more "pop" also.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not bad. These are essentially no stride drop the heel and turn swings. The step, as noted, is not really part of anything. Looking at them as no stride swings there is a lot to like here. Especially on some of them. If one of the video wizards would like to take the trouble to cut the clip into separate swings that we can frame by frame that would be spectacular. I'm fine with putting a stride back in. Shoot, try it now. Maybe it works like magic but I'm thinking there is a little to clean up first and besides, some pretty good ML hitters shift, drop the heel and turn so I'm not going to be dogmatic and demand a stardard stride for everyone. All in all, a lot to like here.

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            • #7
              Yeah, Mark...but show me one MLB hitter who strides, waits one full second then hits. This has to change in his swing or else he will forever be too mechanical and will probably struggle to hit elite pitching some day.

              Comment


              • #8
                What I'm saying is, he doesn't stride. It's a no stride swing that he basically sets up late for with a little timing step that makes him "feel right". This swing begins when his hips start moving forward well after the step and some of them are better than others. The step is a non issue because it's really not part of the swing. He might as well do it fifteen minutes early in a different batter's box for all the effect it has on this swing. I would liken it to Craig Counsell's bat waggling way above his head. Does he do it? Yes. Does he like the way it feels? Apparently. Is it part of his swing? Mentally yes. Physically no, not really IMO.

                Am I all for standardizing his swing after the no stride swing gets cleaned up? I'm all for trying it but I'm not dogmatic about it because there are good no stride swingers in the majors. Therefore a stride is not a universal. After all, what is a stride but momentum development and there are any number of ways to develop momentum. It's not about form it's about function.
                Last edited by Mark H; 04-22-2008, 04:18 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So the question is... In a real game, does he stride or no stride?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A game video is always interesting isn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                      What I'm saying is, he doesn't stride. It's a no stride swing that he basically sets up late for with a little timing step that makes him "feel right".
                      I agree, but he is getting no power and little separation because he just drops down on the front foot and turns around the front leg. He is not driving the torso from the back leg and then finishing with the front leg.

                      His legs are not being used as levers to rotate the torso. He shifts onto the front foot and then uses just the muscles in the upper front leg to try and rotate the torso. A classic singles hitter move. He is not doing anything like what Ted Williams called "the hips leading the hands." He's not even doing what you like to call, "moving the middle."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LAball View Post
                        So the question is... In a real game, does he stride or no stride?
                        He does stride in games; BUT his stride is nowhere near as pronounced or methodical as it appears in this video. I think the fact that he hasn't been able to swing a bat in three months, and he's struggling to get back his timing cues, has caused this delayed stride. We were doing some soft-toss today, and I didn't notice any over-emphasis or delay in his stride.


                        Twitch5

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would have him start with his feet at the width they get to after the foot drop. Then as a timing trigger, pull that leg in slightly and put it down.

                          Picking it up and moving forward 4 inches just to put it down again, then to swing is a very disconnected, unnatural move.

                          Widen, pull it in slightly and put it back to it's original spot is a more fluid and popular move.

                          Start there and see how the rest of the body reacts and gets into the swing.

                          -scott
                          "There are no miracles in sports. Miracles have been rehearsed hundreds of times in practice." - Scott Waz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jbooth View Post
                            I agree, but he is getting no power and little separation because he just drops down on the front foot and turns around the front leg. He is not driving the torso from the back leg and then finishing with the front leg.

                            His legs are not being used as levers to rotate the torso. He shifts onto the front foot and then uses just the muscles in the upper front leg to try and rotate the torso. A classic singles hitter move. He is not doing anything like what Ted Williams called "the hips leading the hands." He's not even doing what you like to call, "moving the middle."
                            I'll come back and review his video and your comments in a minute but this video from another thread on here is what I would call driving the torso from the back leg. http://imageevent.com/matthew0127/20...=0&w=4&s=0&z=2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                              I'll come back and review his video and your comments in a minute but this video from another thread on here is what I would call driving the torso from the back leg. http://imageevent.com/matthew0127/20...=0&w=4&s=0&z=2
                              I am in total agreement that he needs to use his back leg more to drive the torso and generate more power, BUT I'm not sure the video you have referenced is the best way to do it. It appears that the batter doesn't "squish the bug" but actually pulverizes it and then pushes off the ball of his rear foot. Is this the best way to drive the torso from the back leg? This seems to contradict others who say to get more on the rear toe (i.e. Pujols).

                              Twitch5

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