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  • Softball - drag bunt

    Score keeper is clasifying a slapper's "drag bunt" as a sacrifice bunt.

    Naturally this slapper rarely is credited with a negative AB.

    Is it correct to record a "drag bunt" as a "sacrifice bunt"?

  • #2
    I have found that score keeping in softball is fairly liberal.
    See ball, hit ball.

    Comment


    • #3
      From what I understand now, drag bunting or the "running tap" is no longer considered a sacrifice. This is the reason a drag bunter is no longer called out on a third strike foul ball.

      Drag bunting is an attempt at a base hit.........

      Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
      Score keeper is clasifying a slapper's "drag bunt" as a sacrifice bunt.

      Naturally this slapper rarely is credited with a negative AB.

      Is it correct to record a "drag bunt" as a "sacrifice bunt"?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
        From what I understand now, drag bunting or the "running tap" is no longer considered a sacrifice. This is the reason a drag bunter is no longer called out on a third strike foul ball.

        Drag bunting is an attempt at a base hit.........
        BM, do you have a link that you could point me to that would document this?

        Comment


        • #5
          Five, it looks like I was mistaken and it's still up to interpetation as to the intent of the drag.

          2007 NCAA Rules. See the bolded verbage below for help interpeting intent and scoring:

          Sacrifice
          SECTION 8. A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following
          situations:

          a. When, with fewer than two outs, the batter advances one or more runners
          by bunting (including a slap, slug, slash and running slap) and is called
          out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred
          .

          b. When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without error) fails to get
          the lead runner out on any type of bunt.

          Note: If the lead runner is tagged out in an attempt to advance more than
          one base, it is scored a fielder’s choice. If the batter is obviously bunting
          for a hit in a situation where a sacrifice is not normally used, credit the
          hitter with an at-bat.


          c. When, with fewer than two outs, the lead runner advances by means of
          a bunt but a trailing runner is out.

          d. When, with fewer than two outs and runners at first and third base, the
          pitcher fields a bunt, holds the runner at third base, throws the runner out
          at first base and the runner at first advances safely to second base.
          Sacrifice Not Credited

          SECTION 9. No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
          RULE 14 / SCORING 213

          a. When a lead runner advances on a bunt because of a dropped good
          throw.

          b. When a batter inadvertently taps the ball into fair territory and it results
          in a runner advancing and the batter being retired. The intent to sacrifice
          bunt or slap must exist
          .

          c. When modifications are not made to the running slapper’s swing or
          motion.

          Notes:
          1. Modifications could include, but are not limited to, the following:
          sacrifice motion, a controlled compact swing, a pause in the running
          slapper’s motion or a reduction of foot speed.

          2. Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a
          traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows
          the intent to advance a base runner, credit a sacrifice. If modifications are
          not made to the running slapper’s swing or motion, charge an at-bat, even
          if a base runner advances.
          Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
          BM, do you have a link that you could point me to that would document this?

          Comment


          • #6
            Further Clarification from ISF and Canadian Rules:

            2006-2007 Rule Interpretations

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Rule 1 Definitions
            Rule 1-84 Slap Hit

            Does the definition make a drag bunt a slap hit?
            Response: No
            Re: Rule 1-84 FP-Definition of a slap hit

            This definition was put into our rulebook from the ISF. The ISF adopted it to provide a definition to other countries (other than Canada and the USA) to show the difference between a slap and a bunt (even a drag bunt). We felt it was important because many new coaches were suggesting a slap hit was a drag bunt.

            You must look at the definition of a bunt before saying a drag bunt could be considered a slap hit. Rule 1-13 says a bunt is a batted ball not swung at but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield. It is very clear the bat is held out even on the drag bunt and the ball meets the bat.

            The Slap hit definition (Rule 1-84) clearly says in the first paragraph, it is a batted ball that has been struck at with a controlled short chopping motion rather than a full swing. The 2 listed examples still must have the controlled short chopping motion.

            If the player is running the box a (2) and his bat is laid out and the ball meets the bat it is a bunt. If he has the short chopping motion, it is a slap. He is not out on the third strike if it goes foul on the slap hit. Most umpires have a good understanding of the two and should be able to make the appropriate call.

            To sum up remember a bunt is a situation where the bat is held out and meets the ball while a slap hit is a situation where there is a short controlled chopping swing at the ball. If it is a slap a batter is not out on a third strike foul ball unless caught.
            Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
            Five, it looks like I was mistaken and it's still up to interpetation as to the intent of the drag.

            2007 NCAA Rules. See the bolded verbage below for help interpeting intent and scoring:

            Comment


            • #7
              I dont understand why there is such a distinct difference between sacrafice and a hit. Does it go against you batting average or something, or sounds better?

              Comment


              • #8
                A sacrifice allows you to be put out without being charged with an at bat.

                Just like a BB is not counted as an official at bat.

                Originally posted by LAball View Post
                I dont understand why there is such a distinct difference between sacrafice and a hit. Does it go against you batting average or something, or sounds better?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BoardMember View Post
                  Five, it looks like I was mistaken and it's still up to interpetation as to the intent of the drag.

                  2007 NCAA Rules. See the bolded verbage below for help interpeting intent and scoring:
                  BM, if I understand this correctly, even a slap could be considered a "sacrifice" if a runner advances.

                  Is that how you understand it as well?

                  Seems odd.

                  I could have a kid that is a terrible slapper, but have a high OBP simply because when they slap a base runner advances.

                  Seems to give a slapper a big advantage over a hitter. A hitter that advances a runner isn't credited with a "sacrifice" because they advanced a runner.

                  Basically what I'm reading is that if a runner advances during a slap or "drag bunt", then their BA/OBP can only increase and never decrease.

                  Would a "hard slap" which flies above the MI into the OF still be considered a sacrifice?

                  Seems to me that slappers have a license to have their failures turned into a "sacrifice".
                  Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 04-22-2008, 12:06 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Could you please look at the following link and search for the word "sacrifice". Does this imply that the rule was changed on March 1, 2007 to only include standard bunts as a "sacrifice bunt"?


                    http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/pla...PreviewState=0
                    Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 04-22-2008, 12:32 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
                      Could you please look at the following link and search for the word "sacrifice". Does this imply that the rule was changed on March 1, 2007 to only include standard bunts as a "sacrifice bunt"?
                      http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/pla...PreviewState=0
                      No Five, I see this as removing "suggestions for types of bunts" from the rule book as slaps are no longer considered bunts, but are still considered as possible sacrifice opportunities.

                      This is from the NCAA Official Score Book:


                      x. Sacrifice: Credit given to a batter who, with less than two outs, advances one or more runners by bunting or slapping and is called out at first base or would have been called out had no error occurred.
                      Here the link to NCAA Scoring Rules.

                      The way I read all of rules and clarifications, in normal sacrifice situation IE unner at first and/or second, less then 2 outs, a slap or drag in the infield should be considered a sacrifice attempt.

                      It seems to clarify "allowing the ball to hit the stationary bat" as a bunt, and "moving the bat forward into contact" as a slap for the purposes of the third strike foul rule. This rule obviously gives the slap hitter an advantage in terms of the scoring book.

                      The real confusion to me happens when a right hander pulls back and "slaps" at the ball. IMO, this should also then be considered for a sacrifice at bat........

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Here is futher clarification from High School Federation to help determine the third strike foul rule:

                      4. SLAP HIT AND DRAG BUNT
                      Distinguishing between a slap hit and a drag bunt is particularly important when the batter has two strikes and the ball is fouled off. When considering this situation the umpire must visualize whether the bat is held stationary like a bunt, even though the batter is running forward, or the batter moves the bat with the wrists for a slap hit. If the umpire determines that it is a bunt, the batter who fouls off the third strike would be out. But, if the batter is slapping at the ball and fouls it off with two strikes, it is treated the same as a foul ball and the batter remains at bat.
                      Last edited by BoardMember; 04-22-2008, 07:56 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you BM!

                        Comment

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