Measuring Frames to Contact

[Ohioteamz]

If you are using the typical 30 fps we see on the net, I am trying to figure out what the universal measurement is for frames to contact. When we say a guy is a 5 frame to contact hitter, is that implying 5 frames from the first movement forward? I assume we ignore any hitch, or positioning the hitter is doing with their hands to get to launch position.

[Mark H]

It is a little bit subjective but I look at front heel drop or when I think the hitter has made a decision and passed the point where he/she could hold up without a big check swing effort or when the rear shoulder has definitely started around. To me the key is how much time does it take you to get from the point where you have to make your final decision to contact.

[chesspirate]

I've also heard of counting from when the back elbow starts to move/drop.

[dannyboy]

Mark,

Hi.
My opinion.
This is related to one of two areas (real goals to hitting) that I am (and have been for quite a long time now) keenly focused.
I agree that when one makes "the decision" is subjective, but more than a little bit. Respectfully, you can't make an objective observation (frames to contact for comparable hitters) based on when you think the hitter has made a decision. One must pick out a fairly consistent (among hitters) anatomical state of motion (visibly discernable in one frame [60 fps is better than 30, etc.]) that is common to all good hitters, to objectively compare hitters. This anatomical state must be considered, by the observer, to be the "start of the swing". It may be different for different observers, but it must be consistent, for the individual observer, and really should be for all observers for discussion with others. And this point is very different than "check".

ps: please don't take this as me trying to be rude.

[Ohfor]

There are no answers in the world Ray lives in.

Everone just walks around and thinks up questions.

Mostly, incoherent questions.

[Mark H]

Chesspirate,

Hopefully the elbow is coming around the corner on it's way down rather than just pulling down.

Ray,

I understand your desire for an objective measure and likely this is possible with MLB swings. Not sure it's so possible with less efficient more varied youth swings but I would be delighted to be shown otherwise.

[dannyboy]

Ohfor,

you may be right. mea culpa.
i've noticed you trying to be nice, here (moreso than what i have normally seen, elsewhere).
i can be rude. so can you.
i once held out an olive branch to a mutual acquaintance and it was thrown in my face. i extend one to you now.
i really do think that if we both try and be civil we can have some interesting and hopefully helpful discussions. even help each other. not smart-asses. i will take that attitude, if you do. i mean that.

[dannyboy]

c'mon man, what do you say?
or would you rather me just FO?

[dannyboy]

sorry Mark. i'll get back to you. gotta go. at work.

[chesspirate]

Hopefully the elbow is coming around the corner on it's way down rather than just pulling down.

It seems to me though, that there is a time in MLB swings where the back elbow is dropping (just down) before it really connects to the body and truly begins to swing. That is probably why, counting from full footplant makes a little more sense when comparing swings.

[Ohfor]

Ohfor,

you may be right. mea culpa.
i've noticed you trying to be nice, here (moreso than what i have normally seen, elsewhere).
i can be rude. so can you.
i once held out an olive branch to a mutual acquaintance and it was thrown in my face. i extend one to you now.
i really do think that if we both try and be civil we can have some interesting and hopefully helpful discussions. even help each other. not smart-asses. i will take that attitude, if you do. i mean that.

i mean that.

More evidence.

Ray's definition of olive branch:....."If they disagree with you mf them and threaten them."

Now, I've done the same thing. I just don't call it an olive branch.

Yes, you did offer one of those.

If you recall Ray, you were having troubles getting along at setpro. You asked to maintain an email relationship with me. I said sure. I disagreed on the first issue you brought up and you went ballistic.

Your effort lasted one email.

[hiddengem]

If you are using the typical 30 fps we see on the net, I am trying to figure out what the universal measurement is for frames to contact. When we say a guy is a 5 frame to contact hitter, is that implying 5 frames from the first movement forward? I assume we ignore any hitch, or positioning the hitter is doing with their hands to get to launch position.

His first movement down and in toward the ball is where I start.

[bigdaddy]

I like foot and/or heel plant. Again, as long as you use the SAME starting point for that particular hitter, then you can see if they are imroving.

Keith

[LClifton]

counting consistently

It may be different for different observers, but it must be consistent, for the individual observer, and really should be for all observers for discussion with others. And this point is very different than "check".

And so,,,,,you start counting, when?

LClifton

[Mark H]

I like foot and/or heel plant.

Keith

Valid for tracking progress with most hitters but then you get one like this.

http://home.mindspring.com/~rmk/Jungawayslow.mpg