Friend's son

[rob]

Here is a clip of a friend of mine's son. He has been working on Posture, connection, Rotation. I think he is getting better at the posture. I think he becomes disconnected from the second he lifts his hands at the start of his swing. He opens his front foot on his stride which opens his hips too soon. He rotates pretty well around his front hip though. He looks like he has a little bat drag too, where the back elbow gets ahead of the knob of the bat. What do you guys think?

[RobV]

I think you called a lot of it correctly. He also appears to have a 2 plane swing (looks like he's hitting downward). His swing reminds me a lot of my sons swing right now (getting better...still long ways to go and be consistant).

Rob

[rob]

I think you called a lot of it correctly. He also appears to have a 2 plane swing (looks like he's hitting downward). His swing reminds me a lot of my sons swing right now (getting better...still long ways to go and be consistant).

Rob

Oh, so you are saying he starts his swing downward (1 plane) and then has it come back upward (plane 2)? I wonder if this is because he raises his hands before he swings, or at least if this is part of it.

[RobV]

No. I mean the plane of his swing (the path of the bat) is not perpendicular to his spine or how he is "tilted" over (posture). There was a thread here somewhere that had a SETPRO animation of the 2 plane swing. Not sure how to find it though. Maybe do a search for it.

Rob

[RobV]

This thread here:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=39371&page=6&highlight=%22swing+plane%22

Has some good info on this. Go to the last page and you will see at least half of the animation I'm talking about.

[Ursa Major]

Here's the two-plane diagram you're thinking of:

Maybe it's 'cuz I had a really good breakfast and am in a charitable mood, but I think the kid is not bad at all, with the issues you guys mention being not so serious as to be uncorrectable.

1. Disconnection? Sure, but not so bad for that age group -- or what I think it is. (Is he about 16?) I think the hand movement is more of a trigger than anything else. The hands and arm stay pretty well connected once the launch starts.

2. Opening the front foot? Yup and does fan the hips open, although he kinda compensates by putting a little half-frame Pujols-like hip coil/counterrotation in during his stride to reclaim some pop. Obviously, that's inefficient and he should work on keeping closed; when he does, that hip coil could be awesome.

3. Posture and swing plane? Hard to say because the pitch is at the letters. So, he should be relatively erect with that swing. And, I've looked at the swing on this issue a dozen times, and I think he remains "in plane" until way after contact (like, until the bathead is pointed away from the camera), which is plenty long. So, we'd need to see him go after a low pitch to see if he gets the tilt right then.

4. Bat drag? Sure, but he "saves' it at the end, so it's on the list of things to deal with but I wouldn't interrupt his season to dwell on it. Not to abuse poor Albert by making him our model again, but Al does the same thing, as shown here:


Also, note that the head moves forward and then bobs back during the swing as he pops back of his nicely firm front leg. In the course of trying to keep his front foot and hips closed, he might want to work on keeping his head centered and unmoving after foot plant. That should increase the frequency and quality of his contact.

Anyway, good looking kid. In fact, his swing reminds me a little of HiddenGems' "old" (i.e., one year old, pre-Englishbey) swing, as shown here:


UM

[wogdoggy]

pre englishbey? what about a post englishbey swing? cmon gem lets see the improvement.

[Ohioteamz]

Edited my post since Ursa said it all and more.

[Ohfor]

I disagree.

This is a completely downward swing path. It needs to be fixed and fixed asap. He is totally disconnected from his engine.

Start with the concept that the bat must remain perpendicular to the spine and that rotation comes from the center.

This is a simplified version but a good place to start.

Doing this right will force good posture.

[jbooth]

Here is a clip of a friend of mine's son. He has been working on Posture, connection, Rotation. I think he is getting better at the posture. I think he becomes disconnected from the second he lifts his hands at the start of his swing. He opens his front foot on his stride which opens his hips too soon. He rotates pretty well around his front hip though. He looks like he has a little bat drag too, where the back elbow gets ahead of the knob of the bat. What do you guys think?

I think his lower body is just fine. He is swinging very slightly down (off plane of pitch) because his bat is almost horizontal, and his front elbow is too high (horizontal.) This start position almost always forces the batter to lift the bathead (as he does) then it is hard to make the hands follow the back shoulder down during roation, so they change plane independently of the shoulder, and they move toward the height of the ball which is below them, and this causes the bat to go on a downward plane which is different from the shoulder plane. He needs to get the bat more vertical in his load, and his front elbow just a bit more down. (they work together.)

At the start of shoulder rotation the knob should be heading down, his knob is doing the knob to the ball baloney, early on. He is moving the knob with his hands, toward the ball, rather than locking the hands to the shoulder and moving the unit down and around and up into the ball. His shoulders are going down, around and up, but his hands are going straight to the ball. This is what many people teach and it is what causes the bat to go on a downward plane.

[jojab]

Ortiz Angles

I also see a posture and angle problem. I'd like to see what he looks like filmed from the front.

Here is what he should look like (Ortiz) and what Ohfor's talking about. Have him hit a few different pitches (high, medium and low) and review the clips. Is the bat perpendicular to the spine? Are the shoulders and the bat on the same angle at contact?

Joe

[RobV]

Thanks Ursa.

That's the one.

These issues with his swing may seem like small things, but can be monumental when it comes to fixing/changing them. We've been trying to fix small things (what I think are small things) similar to these, and have made only small improvements (even after months of work). A lot of 1 step forward, 2 steps back has taken place.

Some of this (maybe a lot) I attribute to myself not being able to convey to my son what he needs to do. Whether it is through cue words (or lack of choosing the best/correct words) or me just needing to learn more/see more and go through the trial and error process with him.

I seem to know (or least I hope I'm getting better at it) what the swing "should" look like, but fail miserably sometimes getting my son to understand what I'm trying to say.

:noidea

And as Ohfor has mentioned before, being able to apply the "good swing" in a game situation.....whole 'nother ballgame.

But....we keep trying.

[MSandman]

He needs to get the bat more vertical in his load, and his front elbow just a bit more down. (they work together.)

Very good point Jim. I'd have him try just that (see the Glaus clip from pitcher angle) and see what happens before tinkering much more.

[Ohfor]

... and his front elbow just a bit more down. (they work together.)

No, no, no.

[swingbuster]

Hips...Energy = force x distance *** Yeager

If you fail to coil your hips the MLB average minus 28 degrees and you rotate your hips open into toe touch like this kid does you have no hip power. Opening the lead foot this much weakens the hip turn.

Your total degrees of rotation of your hips is severely compromised.

Watch him pick his lead foot up with no hip coil into his back side and step from a wide base with no negative move preceding it .

Bad lower body work IMHO.

There are standards measured on these parameters and he is way off of these. You do not have to guess at this.

Way to wide..stand up more, bat too flat( Sandman){ put his top hand in a position wher it cannot take the swing over} ... use the force of gravity more bringing the bat down and around. Synch a hip and hand load to get a sense of weighting and coiling the back side. This kid is athletic....his swing mechanics could be fixed to where he could really play IMHO