Scoring question - Hit or Error?

[juggins]

Batter hits a sharp line drive that strikes the pitcher, who retrieves the ball and throws wildly to first, batter is safe at first. This appears to be an error because the pitcher had enough time to get the batter out at first with a good throw. However, the pitcher was then immediately removed from the game because the ball had struck and injured his throwing hand. Does this change the ruling? Could it be scored a base hit because the ball was hit with such force that it injured the pitcher's throwing hand and he was physically unable to make a good throw to first? Or is that irrelevant?

[ipitch]

Since he was able to throw the ball, he could have possibly made a good throw. So, I would think it has to be an error, unless the play would have been somewhat close at first base. But, it wouldn't surprise me if some MLB official scorers would score it a hit. Some of them are far too lenient, IMHO.

[Coach45]

Did the batter/runner advance to second base on the wild throw? If he did it then an error is clearly recorded because you have to account for every base. If the play should have been made with 'ordinary effort' it's probably an error, otherwise a hit. This is a scorekeeper's judgement call. I saw an MLB third baseman get injured while fielding a hard hit shot last night and an error was recorded at the time.

What level of play are we talking about? Some MLB scorekeepers actually talk with players after a game and ask about what happened; they know who will be honest and who will protect their stats. It's difficult to see how a ball spins off the bat and sometimes nominal-looking plays are anything but straightforward. My understanding is that until the book is submitted to the league (within 24 hours, I believe) the scorekeeper is free to change his mind. Youth ball, with biased parents or coaches keeping the books, doesn't record things very accurately.

[juggins]

Did the batter/runner advance to second base on the wild throw? If he did it then an error is clearly recorded because you have to account for every base.

No, the batter did not advance to second.

If the play should have been made with 'ordinary effort' it's probably an error, otherwise a hit. This is a scorekeeper's judgement call.

Definitely not ordinary effort on catching the line drive. It was hit too hard and pitcher did not have enough time to react. It ricocheted off his hand/body and landed a few feet away. He retrieved it and threw to first. There was time to get the runner with a routine throw, but his throw wasn't even close; way too high and didn't have much velocity, as if he couldn't grip it properly. The lack of velocity is probably why the batter couldn't advance to second, since the ball didn't go that far. I originally scored it an error but now have second thoughts due to the pitcher's hand being injured. Clearly it would be a hit if the pitcher had not attempted to throw the ball. He did attempt though, but it appeared that his hand injury affected his ability to throw accurately. Maybe that puts the play beyond 'ordinary effort'?

What level of play are we talking about?

High school.

[Coach45]

Given what you've written I would likely make the call based on whether the pitcher is routinely putting himself in good fielding position as he finishes his delivery, but it's really tough to have a rocket hit back at you on the mound. If the ball doesn't hit the pitcher it most likely makes it though the middle for a base hit, unless the defense is adjusted or the ball caroms off the mound and a defender can get to it. Lots of options to think about.

I don't believe the MLB rule considers injury a factor in the ruling and I don't recall if the NFHS rules do, but I doubt it. Everything considered it's probably a hit. Or an error.

On the flip side consider a hard hit smash an infielder can't field cleanly. The runner will clearly be safe at first, until he pulls up short with a pulled hammy. In the interim the fielder makes the throw. The runner is out.

[juggins]

Everything considered it's probably a hit. Or an error.

Yeah, that's the same conclusion I've come to.

[bluezebra]

Did the batter/runner advance to second base on the wild throw? If he did it then an error is clearly recorded because you have to account for every base.

The BR advancing has no bearing on whether to record a hit or an error. The only way this would come into effect, is if the original play was called a base hit, but the BR reached second on the bad throw. Then it would be recorded as a hit AND an error allowing the advance to 2B.

By the description in the original post, the injury has no effect on the scoring. F1 made the throw. ERROR. If the batted ball caused an injury whereby F1 couldn't field the ball, then it would be a hit. Such as the ball hitting F1's leg, causing him to collapse.

Bob

[Coach45]

The BR advancing has no bearing on whether to record a hit or an error. The only way this would come into effect, is if the original play was called a base hit, but the BR reached second on the bad throw. Then it would be recorded as a hit AND an error allowing the advance to 2B.
Bob

Agreed. I didn't word things well and was simply asking for clarification on the play as a whole. If the runner advanced to second on the wild throw there would clearly be an error involved. The point being you have to account for every base advanced. Which begs the question of whether to record a one base error or two if the runner would have been retired by the throw.

[hawkiirock]

IMO outfielders have it way too easy. I see mlb outfielders missing what I consider pretty easy balls quite often and hits are recorded. Especially where nobody calls the ball or the OF just lets it drop in front of him.

Then you see a rocket hit at the 3b and off his glove and it is ruled an error although it is 10x harder play than the hits to the outfield. Sorry but had to rant for a 2nd

[korp]

Error as far as I know the rule does not make acceptions for such a play. Although as a batter you wish it would be a hit since you smoked it but unfortunately its not that way.