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  • Over emphasis on hips

    I profoundly believe the over emphasis regarding hip rotation is a 'nick' which prohibits younger players from reaching their full-swing potential. That facts remain, when the swing initiated , the hips rotate 30% slower then the bathead - in which matches the velocity of the hands.


    I challenge anyone with evidence to prove myself wrong.

  • #2
    Are you saying the bathead matches the velocity of the hands during the swing?

    Comment


    • #3
      Your "Myself" is wrong. The conclusion that hips are the engine that allow the best hitters to drive the ball, comes from the analysis of the best hitters in baseball. Do you think we'd care about how the Mendoza-line hitters swing the bat?

      My son used to be a hands first hitter. When I taught him to go hips 1st, shoulders 2nd, then hands, then bat head, the effect was immediate. He went from beating out soft grounders and getting Texas leaguer base hits, to driving the ball hard, sending the ball 280 to 300 feet with his first few swings. Not bad for a kid that weighed 106 pounds. Now he is 6'1" weighs 146 and has sent one ball over 400 feet. Another 25 pounds on his frame couldn't hurt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
        Your "Myself" is wrong. The conclusion that hips are the engine that allow the best hitters to drive the ball, comes from the analysis of the best hitters in baseball. Do you think we'd care about how the Mendoza-line hitters swing the bat?

        My son used to be a hands first hitter. When I taught him to go hips 1st, shoulders 2nd, then hands, then bat head, the effect was immediate. He went from beating out soft grounders and getting Texas leaguer base hits, to driving the ball hard, sending the ball 280 to 300 feet with his first few swings. Not bad for a kid that weighed 106 pounds. Now he is 6'1" weighs 146 and has sent one ball over 400 feet. Another 25 pounds on his frame couldn't hurt.
        sounds like pound for pound he really puts the hurt on the ball...:applaud:

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wogdoggy View Post
          sounds like pound for pound he really puts the hurt on the ball...:applaud:

          He couldn't pull the ball until I taught him the new swing. Another benefit to the rotational swing is that it allows him to see the ball longer. Mark H got me started on the right path.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sonny Schmidt View Post
            I profoundly believe the over emphasis regarding hip rotation is a 'nick' which prohibits younger players from reaching their full-swing potential. That facts remain, when the swing initiated , the hips rotate 30% slower then the bathead - in which matches the velocity of the hands.


            I challenge anyone with evidence to prove myself wrong.
            Of course the hips go slower than the hands, they are much larger muscles...but that does not mean that they are not thoroughly involved in a good swing.

            And the hands never travel anywhere near the speed of the bat head. In an MLB swing, the bat head is traveling around 70 mph, the hands are maybe at 12-15 mph. It's the record-player example, the part of a record closest to the center (like the hands) travels much slower than the outer edge of the record (the bat head).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
              He couldn't pull the ball until I taught him the new swing. Another benefit to the rotational swing is that it allows him to see the ball longer. Mark H got me started on the right path.
              That's why I spend time on the net. It feels really good to hear from time to time that someone was helped. Thanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sonny Schmidt View Post
                I profoundly believe the over emphasis regarding hip rotation is a 'nick' which prohibits younger players from reaching their full-swing potential. That facts remain, when the swing initiated , the hips rotate 30% slower then the bathead - in which matches the velocity of the hands.


                I challenge anyone with evidence to prove myself wrong.
                I see plenty of kids who emphasize the hands but don't rotate the hips etc well and they don't hit well at all. As to proving you wrong that's going to be difficult when, reading your post, I can only draw vague inferences of what you might mean. In any case, I'm not on here to debate. Tom is your man for that. I'm on here to point parents and kids away from bad information and toward good information as I see it. OTOH, I would be interested in understanding your point if you would be kind enough to elaborate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
                  My son used to be a hands first hitter. When I taught him to go hips 1st, shoulders 2nd, then hands, then bat head, the effect was immediate. He went from beating out soft grounders and getting Texas leaguer base hits, to driving the ball hard, sending the ball 280 to 300 feet with his first few swings. Not bad for a kid that weighed 106 pounds. Now he is 6'1" weighs 146 and has sent one ball over 400 feet. Another 25 pounds on his frame couldn't hurt.
                  I have had exactly the same results with clients at the HS, D-1 college, and minor league levels.

                  This rotational stuff works.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sonny Schmidt View Post
                    I profoundly believe the over emphasis regarding hip rotation is a 'nick' which prohibits younger players from reaching their full-swing potential. That facts remain, when the swing initiated , the hips rotate 30% slower then the bathead - in which matches the velocity of the hands.


                    I challenge anyone with evidence to prove myself wrong.
                    The hips going slower is irrelevant, they pass more force through the kinetic chain to the arms and hands.

                    Try to hit a ball over the fence without turning your hips. To get power the hips are absolutely THE most important part of the swing. When Barry Bonds had a injury to his front knee he was hitting a lot of warning track shots. When his leg healed the hits went over the fence.

                    David Ortiz had a back knee injury and had the same issue.

                    As for preventing young players from reaching their potential, you've got it backwards. Until they learn to use the lower body they're not going to get very far, or hit the ball over the fence.

                    I've had many 11 year-olds go from hitting it well short of the warning track to hitting it 220 feet, just by getting them to use the lower body correctly.

                    One 14 YO student who is only 5' 6" and about 140lbs hits it 340' and I've always emphasized hips with him. Another hit it 320 with a wood bat when he was 13 and about 125 pounds. I watch HS kids quite often who hit without good hip turn, and the ball never goes out. It rarely even get to the warning track.
                    Last edited by jbooth; 05-16-2008, 11:55 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sonny Schmidt View Post
                      I profoundly believe the over emphasis regarding hip rotation is a 'nick' which prohibits younger players from reaching their full-swing potential. That facts remain, when the swing initiated , the hips rotate 30% slower then the bathead - in which matches the velocity of the hands.


                      I challenge anyone with evidence to prove myself wrong.

                      take a look at your leg muscles and then look at your arms. Which muscle is bigger? Whichever one it is, wouldn't you want to use the bigger muscle to swing the bat with.

                      Cally

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                        That's why I spend time on the net. It feels really good to hear from time to time that someone was helped. Thanks.
                        it feels good to tell someone to look at some videos and you want to take credit for his swing? LOL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by callyjr View Post
                          it feels good to tell someone to look at some videos and you want to take credit for his swing? LOL
                          I gave Mark H credit for my son's swing. He opened my eyes a little over 2 years ago and so now both of my kids hit the ball hard.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
                            I gave Mark H credit for my son's swing. He opened my eyes a little over 2 years ago and so now both of my kids hit the ball hard.
                            I give you and your son credit for your sons swing. You took the time to seek help and learn. Mark simply points people to a website.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              you can't isolate one area to the exclusion of others or to the point where it becomes a motion that is way different from one that fits into the whole motion.

                              I think Epstein communicates it well as hips lead hands, but at same time, hands have to stay in and you have to know how to adjust,etc.

                              certainly many kids need to learn hip action that keeps them leading. but they also hjave to learn that the hands are in control of what the hips are doing. if they just turn the hips like heck, then they can lose the abiltiy to keep the upper and lower body synched.

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