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  • Upset, Frustrated and Ready to Yank

    Details:

    12U team, rec. league.

    The coach has stated his goals at the first practice:
    1. Have fun.
    2. Be a *real* team/buddies.
    3. Win.

    While the coach has stressed that winning isn't the main goal for my son's team, he yells at the kids almost constantly. There has already been one father ready to pull his son...coach did apologize for his yelling so the boy stayed...but I'm ready to yank mine.

    90% of the team is comprised of 1st time players or those who've only played t-ball before. The coach is FINALLY realizing this now (after asking at the very first practice how many have played and for how long!!) and is trying to figure out the best "game plan" for practices and games.

    He will TELL the kids to do something once and yell if they don't do it right. He has NEVER shown them "what" to do/"how" to do it. They have their first game tonight...tournament before official play starts Tuesday...and I'm really scared we're going to lose. Not a big deal...but these kids are not ready at all.

    He hasn't played any of the boys at any position, has only "corrected" their pitching by telling them "no side arm", warm-ups consist of the boys pairing off and throwing to each other from 10 ft. apart, and he has a horrible view of women.

    (Um...I'm doing this as I think of things, forgive me if this is a bit jumbled)

    We were told that the first game was tentatively scheduled for May 19th. Upon finding out that our first game is the 20th, one of the mothers sinply asked "So, they're not playing Monday, then?" (it was really more of a statement than a question - hard to type tone of voice, of course). The coach? "I SAID that the 19th was the TENTITIVE first game date!" (yelled it so loud at the mom that players on the next nearest field...approx. a football field's length away...heard him). There is only ONE dad who's there faithfully, the rest of the parents are moms out there...cold, rainy, whatever, we tough it out to watch even just the practices to show our support.

    At another practice, he yelled at one of the boys for "throwing like a little girl" (being a mom of a decent 9 yr. old FEMALE pitcher, he almost got a bat up his...er...well...)....

    Last night's practice was a disaster. The coach did call out the plays (runner on first, no outs or runner on second with 2 outs, etc.) but the boys still had no idea where to throw to, half of them weren't even paying attention. I've seen 5-6 yr. old little girls in the outfield at softball practices with longer attention spans. They consistantly made bad plays, just plain stood there after getting the ball because they weren't sure where to throw to, etc.

    I go every time. Last night, I was tossing balls to the kids before practice just to get 'em loose (many were in t-shirts, a couple in shorts, and it was windy and rainy)...once the coach got on the field, he completely ignored me. He ultimately said that he'd like 5 co-coaches...2 dad's did volunteer, my son volunteered me...he has yet to ask my help, even though I know he needs it. I missed one practice due to one of our other children being sick and the second my husband got out there, the coach asked him to pitch BP. Last night, me with my glove on, husband there with our youngest on his lap. The coach seeing me play with the kids beforehand, glove still on...he asks my HUSBAND to pitch BP again.

    Why do some men, even at this level, have such a hard time with women knowing about the game?

    Anyway...sorry this was so long, and there is a lot more I could go into, but 12 practices in...these boys are no where NEAR where they should be. Do I suggest some different types of practice drills? Do I go out on the field when practice starts and wait for the coach to say something (or just tell me to get the heck off the field)? Do I yank my son? He's sick of getting yelled at...and he's one of the ones who actually gets yelled at the least - yet he's still talked about quitting a couple times before practice.

    I love the game, and I hope my kids develop a love for it too. This is my son's first chance since to play since he was in 2nd grade and it's too late to find another team. I just don't want him (or any of my kids) turned off because of a coach like this.

    What do I do??
    "There is no logical reason why girls shouldn't play baseball. It's not that tough. Not as tough as radio and TV announcers make it out to be ... Some can play better than a lot of guys who've been on that field." ~ Hank Aaron

    "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing." ~ Warren Spahn

  • #2
    Now that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
      How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?
      hmmmmm...good point. I do know some rec leagues put all the all-stars on one team - but I've never heard of them putting all the kids with no experience on one team? 12 years olds ( or are some of the kids playing up) yikes - I thought by then you either were playing baseball in some organized fashion or you had other pursuits or hobbies that you concentrated on.

      Anyways, if I were the coach I would be, needless to say, frustrated. I could imagine some guys not handling this situation too well. This sort of reminds me of the Will Ferrell Movie "Kicking & Screaming"

      Anyways - do what we all did when we were on Rec League with a coach we didn't like.

      1. Work with your kid at home - play catch, pitch bp, shag fly balls, - be careful with the bp at 12 years old - hit balls can come back at you pretty quick (my wife uses wiffle balls when she threw bp to my son & he used a wooden bat (he is 14 now and she still throws him bp - it is good mother son time), etc....
      2. Don't suggest drills - just keep your mouth shut.
      3. don't bad mouth the coach in front of the kid - this will give the kid a reason to quit. The kid isn't stupid he knows a good coach from a bad coach.
      4. Next year signup to coach a team.
      5. An indicator of your success on keeping baseball fun will be how hard it will be to get your child to participate next year.
      6. Also keep in mind that this is 12U baseball & judging by your post most of the kids won't go much further in ball - so the key is to make it as fun as you can given the situation that you've been placed into.
      Last edited by dmullen; 05-16-2008, 01:37 PM. Reason: didn't like it - thought I could make it better

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 5LilPlayers View Post
        What do I do??
        Get your son to practice on time, make certain you're there to pick him up on time, root him on all the time, sit in the stands and keep your opinions to yourself, especially with your son...

        This is a classic issue, one that can only be exacerbated by pulling your son or continuing to voice your disappointment. If you made it obvious that you are willing to help and he doesn't bite - let it go.

        PS: I also coach girls basketball and have had females assistants for 10 years. Most were better qualified than I (former college and pro players).
        "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
        - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dmullen View Post
          1. Work with your kid at home - play catch, pitch bp, shag fly balls, - be careful with the bp at 12 years old - hit balls can come back at you pretty quick (my wife uses wiffle balls when she threw bp to my son & he used a wooden bat (he is 14 now and she still throws him bp - it is good mother son time), etc....
          Do that, almost every day. If he wants to, I'm out there with him. I was a pitcher for 18 years, we use real balls, I'm used to it.

          Originally posted by dmullen View Post
          3. don't bad mouth the coach in front of the kid - this will give the kid a reason to quit. The kid isn't stupid he knows a good coach from a bad coach.
          I don't. There's no way I would say anything in front of him. I'm not stupid and he's too smart for his own good.

          Originally posted by dmullen View Post
          4. Next year signup to coach a team.
          I did sign on to coach my two youngest, didn't with any of the others because of being afraid of games on the same day...4 kids playing, only 2 of them are together (4 - 6 yr. olds, t-ball).

          As for how they're assigned...while it's a rec league, it's for the local grade schools (city wide)...random draw...my son's home school roster was full so he got placed on another school's team.

          And yep, we lost. 20 - 0. They did make some good plays, got a few hits, and it looks like we've got a natural pitcher. Coach put him in near the end of the game, he'd never pitched in practice before, 3 up, 3 down in both of the last 2 innings. :applaud: The other team was just much better than us. Oh well...we still have tomorrow.
          "There is no logical reason why girls shouldn't play baseball. It's not that tough. Not as tough as radio and TV announcers make it out to be ... Some can play better than a lot of guys who've been on that field." ~ Hank Aaron

          "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing." ~ Warren Spahn

          Comment


          • #6
            i agree. I didnt read the whole post but a lot of you parents are to blame here. That is pathetic they are 12 and have no experience or just Tball. some of you parents need to step it up a bit. Sorry but that is my opinion
            Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
            Now that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
              Now that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?
              Originally posted by hawkiirock View Post
              i agree. I didnt read the whole post but a lot of you parents are to blame here. That is pathetic they are 12 and have no experience or just Tball. some of you parents need to step it up a bit. Sorry but that is my opinion
              So because a child develops a love of the game later in life and a coach doesn't show the kids what to do, it's perfectly fine for the kids, as well as the parents, to be yelled at by the coach????

              Glad neither of you coached any of my teams. I would have quit before I even started...and I don't want that to happen to my son.
              "There is no logical reason why girls shouldn't play baseball. It's not that tough. Not as tough as radio and TV announcers make it out to be ... Some can play better than a lot of guys who've been on that field." ~ Hank Aaron

              "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing." ~ Warren Spahn

              Comment


              • #8
                Somewhat of a confusing post 5LilPlayes, you seem to want to put everything on the coach, yet there are a few nagging questions to parts of your post. Such as . . . .

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                12U team, rec. league. . . . 90% of the team is comprised of 1st time players or those who've only played t-ball before.
                What have these players been doing for the past 6 years between “t-ball” and a 12U team? Do THEY really enjoy the game and want to be there or is it the parents who think they should “develop a love” for the game as you posted later.

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                “I love the game, and I hope my kids develop a love for it too.”
                Maybe baseball's not his sport, that's OK, there's soccer, basketball, swimming, tennis, golf . . . .

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                While the coach has stressed that winning isn't the main goal for my son's team, he yells at the kids almost constantly. . . . .
                Seems like you are agreeing with the coach that “winning isn't the main goal”, but later show great concerns that winning is very important to you, hope you're not sending mixed messages to your son or coach.

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                They have their first game tonight...tournament before official play starts Tuesday...and I'm really scared we're going to lose.
                You seem very worried about the coach’s demeanor or coaching style of yelling at the boys all the time but then you equate their motivation and attention span of these 12 year-olds to that of 5 & 6 year-olds by writing this. . .

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                . . . the boys still had no idea where to throw to, half of them weren't even paying attention. I've seen 5-6 yr. old little girls in the outfield at softball practices with longer attention spans.
                Do these boys even watch the game on television, or do their interests lie elsewhere (computers, Nintendo, Playstation…)? At 12 years of age, if they truly had an interest in the game as you claim, they would have at least picked up the basics by watching it and have some idea as to where to throw the ball. I feel as though there is really something else that you’re not telling us.

                I think you expect the coach to have the patience of a saint when dealing with boys who by your own description don’t really want to be there in the first place or at least don’t act age appropriate while at practice. That would be a tall order for anyone, especially a volunteer coach.

                Originally posted by 5LilPlayers
                I go every time. Last night, I was tossing balls to the kids before practice just to get 'em loose (many were in t-shirts, a couple in shorts, and it was windy and rainy). . . there is a lot more I could go into, but 12 practices in...
                I would say this coach has his hands full with not only the kids but the parents; what types of parents still send their kids to baseball practice in shorts 12 practices into the season, let alone out in “t-shirts, and shorts” on a “windy and rainy” night? I’m going to go out on a limb here, but it’s my bet the coach has told the kids AND PARENTS the appropriate attire for baseball practice and games . . . doesn't seem that ANYONE listens to the coach, no wonder he's frustrated and raises his voice.

                If a were a psychiatrist, I would say that “it sounds to me that you are really more upset with the coach’s chauvinistic relations towards you and your dislike of his coaching style has manifested from that”, but then again I’m not a psychiatrist.

                Sorry it’s not working out for your son if he really does enjoy the game and really wants to be there, but before you make your decision on “yanking him” or not, I would sit down with the coach and work out your personal issues with him rather then simply write off the whole disappointing season to a coaching style, rather then to what sounds more like a personality conflict.


                Good luck to you and your son on whatever you decide,

                MV9
                Last edited by mudvnine; 05-16-2008, 11:24 PM.
                In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wouldn't be a little surprised if 5LilPlayers is a little frustrated right now. She signed on to get some advise, and people are predominantly picking at various issues while largely missing the bigger picture. Yes, the manager probably was dealt a bad hand, but it looks like he's misplaying it. While I agree that there are a lot of 'red flags' in her post the suggest to me that her knowledge of the game and coaching kids may be more deficient than she realizes, it doesn't hurt for us to accept her version of events and offer advice based on it, while offering some warnings that carrying out that advice might not be well received.

                  Without taking sides, I think that it's fair to try to get higher-ups in the league involved a little bit, in part because their "random draw" business seems to have promoted some of the disparity. If there's a league president or division president (who presumably rose through the ranks as a manager), maybe he or she can stop by and observe a practice and perhaps offer an experienced old timer to come in and give suggestions for practice styles and organization. And, the league MUST take responsibility for managers who are constantly yelling at and belittling players.

                  I'm a little curious at those who somehow want to try to cast blame elsewhere for kids who are 11 and 12 years old and ... gasp ... haven't played baseball before or for a few years. Guess what, folks, in a lot of areas, particularly inner city areas, there isn't the infrastructure (which, sadly, means there often aren't enough Dads around) for an ongoing baseball program. I've gotten some of these kids when I've coached a summer recreational league and, while it's challenging, teaching them and getting them to work together as a team CAN be done. You have to back up and, as 5LP notes, can't assume that kids will automatically know what to do with a ball. But the first time they get a hit or catch a fly ball makes it all worth it. What good does it do to blame parents for the kids' lack of experience? Should the kids be punished, or instead given the best possible crash course in baseball to see how well they can catch up?
                  sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have no problem with a coach yelling at kids, my kid or whoever as long as its constructive. I was a bigtime athelete in HS: Football QB, Captain of the basketball team, ran track and pitched and played SS in baseball. I learned very quick that coaches yell in competitive sports. I also found that a coach that is yelling and fussing a bit cares more than the one who is just sitting there....My HS football coach yelled at me in my face everyday, I mean everyday constantly...WHY? he wanted me to meet my full potential and he cared about me.....That being said I have had coaches that yelled and really didnt yell anything but complaints, thats no fun....There is some truth though to the saying if a coach is yelling at you then he isnt thinking about you....i want my coach to yell....I coach a Coach pitch team 7 and 8 year olds and although I dont believe yelling at kids at that age. I will bark out orders to them on the field by using there name....

                    Oh and why no sidearm if thats the natural movement for a kid why force him to something different....I know its a hot topic debate but sidearm is more natural than throwing over top...try for yourself and see...My son in his lessons has been taught a more 3/4 arm to help his control and it works...is there a rule against sidearm if so I would get it remeoved somehow

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i stand by my opinion that a lot of blame is on the parents. If their kids show this interest late, then they should be putting in extra time teaching them the basics. I would say this coach feels like a babysitter rather than a coach. I feel for him. Good luck to OP and hope the season improves

                      I do agree that perhaps the coach expected more from that age group and might've passed on the basics figuring they knew that. Hard to say with the bias in the OP
                      Originally posted by Ursa Major View Post
                      I'm a little curious at those who somehow want to try to cast blame elsewhere for kids who are 11 and 12 years old and ... gasp ... haven't played baseball before or for a few years. Guess what, folks, in a lot of areas, particularly inner city areas, there isn't the infrastructure (which, sadly, means there often aren't enough Dads around) for an ongoing baseball program. I've gotten some of these kids when I've coached a summer recreational league and, while it's challenging, teaching them and getting them to work together as a team CAN be done. You have to back up and, as 5LP notes, can't assume that kids will automatically know what to do with a ball. But the first time they get a hit or catch a fly ball makes it all worth it. What good does it do to blame parents for the kids' lack of experience? Should the kids be punished, or instead given the best possible crash course in baseball to see how well they can catch up?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Several thoughts:

                        The lack of team experience should have little to do with this discussion. It is great news that this league somehow enticed these kids to come back to the game and play. Most leagues would discourage them from playing.

                        Yelling at a player is much different than yelling to a player. Parents, especially moms sometimes confuse the two. I've overheard this several times in my years of coaching.
                        "Bobby, why is coach always yelling at you?"
                        "What are you talking about mom, coach nevers yells at me."

                        Lastly, we have all seen the coach who gets into the season finding what he bit off may be a little more than he/she expected. This sounds like this may be the case here.
                        "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                        - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dolphindan1 View Post
                          I have no problem with a coach yelling at kids, my kid or whoever as long as its constructive. I was a bigtime athelete in HS: Football QB, Captain of the basketball team, ran track and pitched and played SS in baseball. I learned very quick that coaches yell in competitive sports.
                          Not true..some sports more than others. Baseball is a completely different animal than Basketball or Football. In baseball you can do everything right, and still fail 7 out of 10 times and be an All-Star. Certainly not the case in Football. If you screw up in Football, normally you were either overmatched or had a mental block. No wonder there is so much yelling. In college you only play a handful of times, one mental screw up could cost you your season.

                          Baseball just isn't that way, there is alot of luck involved and a coach that is constantly yelling IMO has a team full of mental midgets, or is a terrible coach. Period.

                          My HS football coach yelled at me in my face everyday, I mean everyday constantly...WHY? he wanted me to meet my full potential and he cared about me.....
                          Maybe its because you weren't as good as you thought, or were not very good mentally. The highschool QB, Track star, Basketball captain and Volleyball captain at my highschool was voted by his peers most likely to be the "Bigtime" athelte in the future. After highschool, he couldn't find a job in any sport at our local Juco.

                          I played basketball a few years in HS..In basketball the coach definetly tends to be more vocal and loud, just the nature of the game. The reason they yell in basketball is because mental breakdowns are what causes problems. I was an ok player, nothing great, but I knew what I was suppose to do, I knew the plays and played the game right. I could count on one hand the amount of times he raised his voice to me throughout that season.


                          "BigTime",I along with thousands of athletes in the country don't respond well to yelling, it doesn't motivate me and it doesn't make me better. There are some kids that do, everybody is different. I have 5 championship rings and 2 United States Gold medals hanging in my game room, and not 1 of the managers on any of those teams were yellers. Not One, but they were dam good at getting the most out of each personality on the team.
                          Last edited by hiddengem; 05-17-2008, 09:46 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dolphindan1 View Post
                            I have no problem with a coach yelling at kids, my kid or whoever as long as its constructive. I was a bigtime athelete in HS: Football QB, Captain of the basketball team, ran track and pitched and played SS in baseball. I learned very quick that coaches yell in competitive sports. I also found that a coach that is yelling and fussing a bit cares more than the one who is just sitting there....My HS football coach yelled at me in my face everyday, I mean everyday constantly...WHY? he wanted me to meet my full potential and he cared about me.....That being said I have had coaches that yelled and really didnt yell anything but complaints, thats no fun....There is some truth though to the saying if a coach is yelling at you then he isnt thinking about you....i want my coach to yell....I coach a Coach pitch team 7 and 8 year olds and although I dont believe yelling at kids at that age. I will bark out orders to them on the field by using there name....
                            This is crap. If a coach has to resort to yelling at you everyday and constantly they are failures as coaches. If that is what you have to do in order to motivate then they should give it up. And if that is what YOU needed to motivate you then maybe you should have taken a look at your personal desires.

                            And where I am from, baseball and track are the same season. I'm sure it's done but doing both would let one of them down.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've had two yellers as coaches. After a bit they got tuned out. You have to save raising your voice for special occasions. As HG says, some games have being louder, etc. as part of the nature of the game, but the in your face constantly stuff is for small minded people who don't know how else to coach.

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