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Will throwing football help pitching velocity?

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  • #16
    Can't Hurt, Might Help...

    I read this thread with some interest. I throw a football with my son and I think it's great, for a number of reasons. First, it's throwing, and it's throwing in another athletic pursuit and that increases my son's interest. There are many times he would rather throw the football thant he baseball.

    Remember this, Joe Namath, John Elway, Dan Marino, were baseball draft picks. And what is one of the five tools, arm strength. They are all freaks for sure, but it does provide a bit of evidence for the value of throwing a football.

    Tom

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    • #17
      Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
      Again, distractions abound. You could spend more time on the mound throwing a small white ball into a strikezone, OR you could spend less time doing this and more time perfecting your football tossing skills. When a batter steps into the box, which skill are you now hoping to have spent more time doing?

      Time spent doing things that are not specific to your specific sporting activity is time wasted. Time you can never reclaim.

      Keep away from anything that distracts from the task at hand.
      Didn't the 70s Steelers take ballet?
      Didn't seem to hurt them too bad
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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      • #18
        larger/heavier objects require more support and have the potential for stressing mechanics more.

        Throwing the football does not tend to give a sore arm, however, it instead tends to make you throw ina less stressful way which means with more of a "short arm" and with a higher arm slot than most will use throing baseball.

        SO you tend to keep about a 90 degree bend in the elbow (extending the arm then getting it back to near 90 is more stressful) nd you tend to get a higher arm slot via less merrygoround and more feris wheel.

        the release is also less pronating for football.

        throwing a round ball that is too large to palm (soccer/basketball) will also encourage the short arm and higher arm slot, but also requires more pronation to get underspin/avoid side spin.

        very good along with long toss for outfield arms where you want pure underspin.

        I prefer throwing the large objects becasue it enphasizes the merrygoround to ferris whell transition (see Nyman buggywhip model) which most kids do not get well.

        Throw these big things with a low/long arm action and they will hurt.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by APPpitch View Post

          Does Tiger Woods swing a lacrosse stick?

          -scott
          No, but he does do motion specific exercises. If throwing a football could be considered a motion specific exercise then it is valid.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cosmo34 View Post
            Which is why Clemens and Walker strongly encouraged maintaining your baseball throwing mechanics while throwing a football. It is also why you do not use it as an end-all-be-all tactic for throwing. If you do it right, it can only help you get loose and possibly help with a little bit of strength (not alot, but you're not going to get weaker, that's for sure).

            And heaven forbid a kid ever goes out and has a little fun besides throwing bullpens all the time. Having fun on the side is just simply unacceptable.
            I'm not singling you out, other pro-football tossing folks are being addressed here.

            I throw a football with my fingers on the side of the ball and my hand turned in a curveball hand position. I can throw a football very well and fairly far and decently accurately, but I don't throw a fastball in this manner. Maintaining a baseball-style delivery with a football is impossible.

            When it's football season, I throw a football around with my son. When it's baseball season, 9 months out of the year, we throw a baseball. Not once since I was a kid did I ever think that my football throwing skills would help my baseball throwing skills. Two completely different feels. Two completely different skill sets that taught my brain two different things.

            If you choose to use a football as part of your warmup, fine. If you think it is fun to do, fine. If you think one will help the other, you are mistaken.

            From what I know, no one is promoting this activity anymore. Neither House, nor Mills nor Ellis. Why? Because it's relationship to increasing velocity does not exist. And it's relationship to command never existed.

            It's like asking a competitive swimmer to spend time rowing a boat. Ask a swimmer about that and watch their eyebrows turn inward.

            Just more food for thought. I think the original poster has his answer.

            -scott
            "There are no miracles in sports. Miracles have been rehearsed hundreds of times in practice." - Scott Waz

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            • #21
              Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
              From what I know, no one is promoting this activity anymore. Neither House, nor Mills nor Ellis. Why? Because it's relationship to increasing velocity does not exist. And it's relationship to command never existed.
              Marshall's students throw footballs. Just not in the way you'd think.
              Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

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              • #22
                Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
                It's like asking a competitive swimmer to spend time rowing a boat. Ask a swimmer about that and watch their eyebrows turn inward.

                Just more food for thought. I think the original poster has his answer.

                -scott
                I was a competitive swimmer for almost 15 years. I started swimming competitively when I was 4 and finished my senior year of HS. And I can honestly say that swimming, alone, kept my ENTIRE body (including my arm) in top physical condition all those years. And it would actually be more like asking a competitive swimmer to try water polo or synchronized swimming - ALL which would help in some way, shape, or form (our coach used to have us play polo at the end of our practices sometimes - it was hard/tiring as ****).
                Last edited by StraightGrain11; 05-23-2008, 07:31 PM.
                "Coaches should teach people to play better baseball, not teach baseball to make better players."
                "In the Little League manual it says 'Baseball builds character' - that is not true. Baseball reveals character." - Augie Garrido

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by StraightGrain11 View Post
                  I was a competitive swimmer for almost 15 years. I started swimming competitively when I was 4 and finished my senior year of HS. And I can honestly say that swimming, alone, kept my ENTIRE body (including my arm) in top physical condition all those years. And it would actually be more like asking a competitive swimmer to try water polo or synchronized swimming - ALL which would help in some way, shape, or form (our coach used to have us play polo at the end of our practices sometimes - it was hard/tiring as ****).
                  The focus of my analogy would be how doing something else would have helped a swimmer to cut down their lap times? Staying "in shape", despite you already being in shape, would be a different focus. I'm sure you would agree that playing water polo was just a mental distraction and did not help you make your turns faster.

                  It is my understanding that Michael Phelps trained about 363 days a year swimming to prepare for the Olympics, and yet was tested among the weakest in strength tests.

                  -scott
                  "There are no miracles in sports. Miracles have been rehearsed hundreds of times in practice." - Scott Waz

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                  • #24
                    Didn't a swim psychologist-nutritionist help Mills write his partial plagiarism of Marshall?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
                      The focus of my analogy would be how doing something else would have helped a swimmer to cut down their lap times? Staying "in shape", despite you already being in shape, would be a different focus. I'm sure you would agree that playing water polo was just a mental distraction and did not help you make your turns faster.

                      It is my understanding that Michael Phelps trained about 363 days a year swimming to prepare for the Olympics, and yet was tested among the weakest in strength tests.

                      -scott
                      No, it didn't help my form on my turns. But it busted the crap out of my core and leg muscles, and definitely presented quite the endurance challenge - ALL extremely important in every aspect of swimming.
                      Last edited by StraightGrain11; 05-23-2008, 09:43 PM.
                      "Coaches should teach people to play better baseball, not teach baseball to make better players."
                      "In the Little League manual it says 'Baseball builds character' - that is not true. Baseball reveals character." - Augie Garrido

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by StraightGrain11 View Post
                        No, it didn't help my form on my turns. But it busted the crap out of my core and leg muscles, and definitely presented quite the endurance challenge - ALL extremely important in every aspect of swimming.
                        I would have to agree with you.

                        Swimming has done the same for me as it did for you. '

                        I think there is a lot of merit in cross training. I heard that Aaron miles used to hit a punching bag every day, and it helped him have quicker hands. Also, I think it was erik who said that they played a lot of ping pong and it helped him in college I believe it was.

                        Fooseball has helped my swing I think because of the whole aspect of letting the ball come to you and not go get it. Also, it strengthened my wrists. I mean there are many other activities that have helped my wrist strength.

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