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Will throwing football help pitching velocity?

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  • Will throwing football help pitching velocity?

    First it is a little heavier than baseball so this will help to build up the strength?

    How about the size, do you think it can help kid to get better hand/fingers actions?

    TIA
    Last edited by mightylakers; 05-22-2008, 11:02 AM.

  • #2
    Throwing a football doesn't help velocity, but it doesn't hurt it either. It does help condition the arm. Nolan Ryan would toss a football as a part of his warm up before long toss.

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    • #3
      Throwing a football helps with throwing a football, if that is your goal.

      Nolan Ryan had a difficult time throwing strikes, imagine if he spent more time on the mound throwing the baseball into the strikezone.

      Sometimes logic is ignored and distractions get introduced.

      Does Tiger Woods swing a lacrosse stick?

      -scott
      "There are no miracles in sports. Miracles have been rehearsed hundreds of times in practice." - Scott Waz

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      • #4
        Won't increase your velocity, but like said before, it will help condition the arm, and is a great warmup to get loose. Todd Walker, Clemens, and Uggla are some that I've seen do it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
          Nolan Ryan had a difficult time throwing strikes,
          The question was about velocity. I believe Nolan Ryan was above average in that department

          <imagine if he spent more time on the mound throwing the baseball into the strikezone.>

          You mean more than 5,386 regular-season innings and 22,575 batters faced?
          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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          • #6
            Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
            Throwing a football helps with throwing a football, if that is your goal.

            Nolan Ryan had a difficult time throwing strikes, imagine if he spent more time on the mound throwing the baseball into the strikezone.

            Sometimes logic is ignored and distractions get introduced.

            Does Tiger Woods swing a lacrosse stick?

            -scott
            Ryan started throwing the football with Houston when he finally exceeded 2 K's for each walk issued. From 1984 to 1993 he struck out 3.63 batters for each walked batter. He also had a lifetime ERA of 3.19. Who has more No Hitters than he does? Coincidence?

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            • #7
              I would be careful doing this. Some people have trouble when they go from one size/type ball to another. I know if I spend all day throwing a softball, then try to throw a baseball, I have a hard time. Going from a football to a baseball really messes me up. If you don't have this problem, go for it.

              Also, be aware that it's not exactly the same motion. A football is thrown more from a cocked position, and has a quicker release. I have seen people throw a football with a baseball-style windup, but it's not the norm and it's difficult to do effectively unless you have huge paws.

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              • #8
                Again, distractions abound. You could spend more time on the mound throwing a small white ball into a strikezone, OR you could spend less time doing this and more time perfecting your football tossing skills. When a batter steps into the box, which skill are you now hoping to have spent more time doing?

                The skill of command is practiced in practice, not in the game.

                How much football tossing does Tim Lincecum do?

                Time spent doing things that are not specific to your specific sporting activity is time wasted. Time you can never reclaim.

                Does Roger Federer swing a badminton racket, how about a weighted badminton racket?

                Do quarterbacks throw baseballs or basketballs to train to be quarterbacks?

                Do basketball players practice shooting soccer balls?

                Keep away from anything that distracts from the task at hand.

                Ryan threw hard because after he stepped back, he exploded forward and kept his hips moving forward into a long stride, braced up his landing leg and sent his upper half flying forward. Just like Lincecum.

                Tom House turned Ryan onto throwing a football I believe. Tom House created distractions and used a generation of pitchers as guinea pigs. I'm assuming Dice-K tried it because the Red Sox thought this was a way to go. I believe Dice-K has gone back to just throwing hundreds of pitches from the mound during his bullpens.

                He was distracted for a short bit.

                Don't be distracted.

                -scott

                PS> Here is the final blurb from Tom House's USC pitching coach appointment:

                "Tom brings us knowledge," Kreuter said. "He brings research, as he's tried to bring the pitching aspect of baseball into the 21st century with technology, and has done that. It's going to be exciting not only for USC baseball, but for college baseball. We're really going to put a stamp on the pitching models for years to come."

                Forty years after leaving campus, House is back, and don't expect any footballs in the bullpen any time soon.

                >So it looks like even Tom learned from his own mistake.
                Last edited by APPpitch; 05-22-2008, 10:20 PM.
                "There are no miracles in sports. Miracles have been rehearsed hundreds of times in practice." - Scott Waz

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
                  I believe Dice-K has gone back to just throwing hundreds of pitches from the mound during his bullpens.
                  I thought he went back to long toss

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by APPpitch View Post
                    Again, distractions abound. You could spend more time on the mound throwing a small white ball into a strikezone, OR you could spend less time doing this and more time perfecting your football tossing skills. When a batter steps into the box, which skill are you now hoping to have spent more time doing?
                    Which is why Clemens and Walker strongly encouraged maintaining your baseball throwing mechanics while throwing a football. It is also why you do not use it as an end-all-be-all tactic for throwing. If you do it right, it can only help you get loose and possibly help with a little bit of strength (not alot, but you're not going to get weaker, that's for sure).

                    And heaven forbid a kid ever goes out and has a little fun besides throwing bullpens all the time. Having fun on the side is just simply unacceptable.

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                    • #11
                      Tom House supported Nolan Ryan with his weight lifting, football throws and long toss. Nolan Ryan pitched 27 years in the MLB, 7 No Hitters, 5,714 strikeouts and had a life time 3.19 ERA. Who are you?

                      After Nolan Ryan would throw the football for a few minutes as part of his warm up he would throw long toss with a baseball and then finish with a short bullpen. He also chopped wood in the off season. Perhaps this specialization you speak of, contributes to problem of pitchers going down with injuries. Pitchers used to throw a lot more and had fewer restrictions. But they also didn't have to face power hitting shortstops batting .300 either.

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                      • #12
                        APPpitch, sounds to me like you're "Dick Mills guy"....?
                        Another one who knows more about pitching than the pros do...gotta love 'em.

                        It's BASEBALL. It's throwing a little white piece of leather around between a few people. C'mon, man, you gotta have fun in this game or you will drive yourself crazy. No, throwing a football is not throwing a baseball. But throwing a football is not going to kill your baseball "career", either - which is something I don't know of anyone - who's NOT a professional - has.

                        And using Tim Lincecum as a "poster child" for young pitchers is a JOKE. That young man (or boy) is a freak-of-a-nature. He's a VERY VERY VERY talented and GIFTED athlete. He's the EXCEPTION - NOT the NORM.

                        Specificity is a great tool. It also needs to be used in that manner - as a TOOL, NOT "the law", of training.

                        You're right, basketball players don't shoot soccer balls - but soccer players do play with hackie-sacks. And basketball players do shoot no-look shots over-the-head from half court; they do shoot 95 footers (a court is only 94 ft long); and they do shoot "you jump over my head while I feed you the ball" shots, as well - NONE of which will ever be useful in a game. But they do it anyways. Why? To keep sane; to keep the game fun - because that's what it is: A GAME. And I'm sure if anyone ever told Roger Federer that using a badmitton raquet would allow him to hit the ball better because it would quicken his stroke and make him focus more because the hitting surface is smaller, he just might try it. And, no, Tiger Woods doesn't swing a lacrosse stick, and I wouldn't either, as a golfer - last time I checked, lacrosse used an over-the-top to slightly "submarine" motion to deliver the ball, with the hands apart - not together.
                        Yes, I know that's not what you were getting at.
                        Last edited by StraightGrain11; 05-23-2008, 01:49 AM.
                        "Coaches should teach people to play better baseball, not teach baseball to make better players."
                        "In the Little League manual it says 'Baseball builds character' - that is not true. Baseball reveals character." - Augie Garrido

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
                          He also chopped wood in the off season.
                          This is one of the best exercises you can do, bar none, for a person in general - not just pitchers. Talk about serious core strengthening!

                          Your point about Tom House makes sense, I guess. Except that he'll always be tied into Mark Prior's health.
                          Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kylebee View Post
                            This is one of the best exercises you can do, bar none, for a person in general - not just pitchers. Talk about serious core strengthening!

                            Your point about Tom House makes sense, I guess. Except that he'll always be tied into Mark Prior's health.
                            You are blaming House for Prior's collision with Giles which probably was the beginning of his shoulder problems? Or the excessive high pitch counts allowed by Dusty Baker, even after Baker was criticized for over-using Prior and Woods? Or are you blaming House for the 117-mph comeback line drive off the bat of Brad Hawpe, that gave Prior a compression fracture of his right elbow, the one he used for pitching? Is it House's fault that Prior missed 2 months in 2004 due to an injury of his Achilles tendon (ankle)?
                            Last edited by Baseball gLove; 05-23-2008, 01:49 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
                              You are blaming House for Prior's collision with Giles which probably was the beginning of his shoulder problems? Or the excessive high pitch counts allowed by Dusty Baker, even after Baker was criticized for over-using Prior and Woods? Or are you blaming House for the 117-mph comeback line drive off the bat of Brad Hawpe, that gave Prior a compression fracture of his right elbow, the one he used for pitching? Is it House's fault that Prior missed 2 months in 2004 due to an injury of his Achilles tendon (ankle)?
                              I didn't say it was necessarily Tom House's fault. Just that he and Prior are inseparable.
                              Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

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