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  • #16
    RobV,
    Thanks for posting the throwing clip. I hope to have some of my son soon. I think you have gotten good advice on a more symmetrical scap load. In addition I would make one comment. His posting leg foot is slipping slightly as he starts his rotation. I don't know if this is a big deal or not, could be bleeding off a little momentum. Probably wouldn't do it with cleats on a real mound.

    Pete H

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    • #17
      "I also think he needs to lift more weights and get bigger/stronger to throw faster. He's a skinny kid and I wish I could just get the pounds on him, but he just burns it off."

      Well look at, who is it... Ervin Santana for the Angels? He looks like a little stick but throws mid 90's. How will lifting weights equate to more velocity when velocity doesn't come from the arm. It comes from the elastic energy produced by moving the body aggressively from the back leg to the front in a sideways lunge. I noticed that he is rushing a bit (His upper body is ahead of his lower body, that = bad). He is moving sideways as his knee is still going up. That is going to throw off the timing and rythem.. he won't look "smooth", and yeah he is losing some MPH from this. Remember we are not trying to get to ball release quickly but to move our body agressively from the back leg to the front leg while maintaining our head over our belt buckle or bellybutton. This will get the pitcher into a good landing position. At what point should he start to move his pelvis (hips) toward landing? It should be as his leg and hands start down from their highest point.

      Also, he is never fully loaded over his back leg. Some people like calling it the "balance point" but I perfer the "loaded position" because what we are doing is taking all our weight from our back leg to our front leg. More momentum = more energy to be moved up through the legs, core, and up to your arm (which is just along for the ride). Whats happening is his upper body is ahead of the lower body. We want them to work in sync.

      Also, when he is just about to release the ball (as others have said) the back foot comes up. What that does is you lose stability, so it's like throwing to a moving target, it's also a velocity killer. See how hard and how accurate you can throw on one leg. Keep that back foot down until after ball release. (what Nolan Ryan did was drag his foot for a good 16 inches, he went through quite a few shoes, or so I've heard. You don't have to drag it that long though..) When I say keep the back foot down, I don't mean the whole foot, just when your to ball release, the top of the shoe should be in contact with the ground. After ball release he seems to be kinda turned away from the plate.. I just hope he has a fast reaction time, becuase one of these days a line drive is going to get him.

      Next time you video tape a pitcher, try and get a few different angles in there. A back view would be nice, and so would a front view (you'd probably have to lay down infront of him and video tape him like that)
      Last edited by XFactor; 03-10-2006, 06:23 PM.
      While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

      Comment


      • #18
        I'd like to see some video of MLB'rs doing what you're talking about X. Cause not much of it seems to be reality, far as i can tell.

        Stealth, I asked about ZG and all you gave were pics of RC, of course the rocket is great, but i'd like to see more pics or vids before i worry about that to much.
        "Do not dismiss what you do not understand"
        "A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice." - Bill Cosby
        "There are sound intellectual grounds for holding faith positions" - Fungo 22

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        • #19
          "Stealth, I asked about ZG and all you gave were pics of RC, of course the rocket is great, but i'd like to see more pics or vids before i worry about that to much."

          I realize that, but Roger is a HOF and the pictures I found of him show what I am talking about. No disrespect to ZG but.......
          "Tip it and rip it" - In Memory of Dmac
          "Hit the inside seam" - In Memory of Swingbuster

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          • #20
            Well go look at clips of Matt Kinney and you'll know exactely what I'm talking about.

            I'll look around today and see if I can find this 1 thing Dick Mills sent out. I'll scan it and post it up here or somethin.
            While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

            Comment


            • #21
              I would never do anything Dick Mills suggests.

              How many times has he reinvented his own interpretation of pitching mechanics?

              How many Mills videos have you bought?

              Not a trustworthy source.

              Comment


              • #22
                Actually he's more trustworthy then some of the other people out there pretending to know what they are talking about ne? Heh, he use to support things like weighted baseballs, throwing from flat ground, long toss.. but then he realized (and it's all in his 608 page book, with a money back gaurantee if it just doesn't tickle your fancy) that none of that really helps with pitching from a mound.

                At least he admitted that he was wrong... and now has science to back him up. (Again reffer to the 608 page book)
                But you don't have to believe it... I could care less if none of you believed it.
                While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well, if you choose to believe what he says versus what the best do, good luck to you.

                  Compare his statements to slow motion video of the best.

                  If you are intellectually honest, you'll change your mind.

                  If not, you'll go to pitching hell based on that pitching religion you espouse.

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                  • #24
                    Well, here are the pics I was talking about.

                    Last edited by XFactor; 03-11-2006, 02:01 PM.
                    While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      16 frames from getting the catchers sign to release.

                      That's pretty damn quick.........In fact, physically impossible.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well, the pitcher is a MLB who throws in the mid to upper 90s... and from looking at those beautiful mechanics it's no wonder why. Too bad it isn't in video form though
                        While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          [QUOTE=XFactor]"I also think he needs to lift more weights and get bigger/stronger to throw faster. He's a skinny kid and I wish I could just get the pounds on him, but he just burns it off."

                          Well look at, who is it... Ervin Santana for the Angels? He looks like a little stick but throws mid 90's. How will lifting weights equate to more velocity when velocity doesn't come from the arm. It comes from the elastic energy produced by moving the body aggressively from the back leg to the front in a sideways lunge.
                          I have to disagree here. I feel that lifting weights/strength training with a fucus on core body strength and legs would definately help. He already has more velocity (lifting combined with better mechanics). Didn't say he has to train like a bodybuilder, just like a babeball player should.

                          I noticed that he is rushing a bit (His upper body is ahead of his lower body, that = bad). He is moving sideways as his knee is still going up. That is going to throw off the timing and rythem.. he won't look "smooth", and yeah he is losing some MPH from this. Remember we are not trying to get to ball release quickly but to move our body agressively from the back leg to the front leg while maintaining our head over our belt buckle or bellybutton. This will get the pitcher into a good landing position. At what point should he start to move his pelvis (hips) toward landing? It should be as his leg and hands start down from their highest point.

                          Also, he is never fully loaded over his back leg. Some people like calling it the "balance point" but I perfer the "loaded position" because what we are doing is taking all our weight from our back leg to our front leg. More momentum = more energy to be moved up through the legs, core, and up to your arm (which is just along for the ride). Whats happening is his upper body is ahead of the lower body. We want them to work in sync.
                          I disagree with this also. He is generating momentum by not stalling out over the rubber at your so called "balance point". We conciously avoid pausing at this "balance point" and rather "pass through" the balance point. If you look at video of some high level pitchers (like Nolan Ryan) you'll see that he never stops moving forward (even while his leg is going up). So I don't think this is a velocity killer as you say.

                          Also, when he is just about to release the ball (as others have said) the back foot comes up. What that does is you lose stability, so it's like throwing to a moving target, it's also a velocity killer. See how hard and how accurate you can throw on one leg. Keep that back foot down until after ball release. (what Nolan Ryan did was drag his foot for a good 16 inches, he went through quite a few shoes, or so I've heard. You don't have to drag it that long though..) When I say keep the back foot down, I don't mean the whole foot, just when your to ball release, the top of the shoe should be in contact with the ground. After ball release he seems to be kinda turned away from the plate.. I just hope he has a fast reaction time, becuase one of these days a line drive is going to get him.
                          I don't see this happening at all. His foot drags on the ground slightly and most of his weight has been shifted to his front side at this point. So I don't see how keeping this back foot on the ground more would help anything.

                          I do feel he needs better forward momentum, and a better "ferris wheel" ending that will help with him being turned to the side as much as he currently is.

                          Next time you video tape a pitcher, try and get a few different angles in there. A back view would be nice, and so would a front view (you'd probably have to lay down infront of him and video tape him like that)
                          Yes, I'd like to get a rear view shot. I just sort of set up the camera at a spur of the moment while we were throwing so I didn't get as many angles as I would've liked.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            With regards to the weight training thing, I thought you were just wanting him to work out his arms... which velocity doesn't come from arm strength.. but you mentioned working out the core so thats good.

                            About the whole "pausing at balance point" I never said he should. I just said he should load all his weight onto his back leg.. you don't have to pause at all during that. What I noticed is his upper body was infront of his lower body. That is called rushing. You want to lead with your front hip.

                            Now the quality of the video wasn't the greatest.. maybe the foot stayed in contact with the ground right until after ball release. But from what I saw it lifted right before the ball came out of the hand. That will affect his control (it won't make him real wild, but he won't be able to hit exactely where he wanted to) and it may take a mile or so off his pitch. Not as much as if the back foot would come up much sooner.
                            While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I would agree with Mark, his lead arm action should be symmetrical to the throwing arm.

                              I also feel that his rotation could improve. It almost looks like he is pushing into footplant. I think he starts off ok, but then he reaches with his front leg, instead he needs to keep loading then unloading the rear hip joint.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I would agree with Ohfor, Mills does not teach what MLB pitchers do. He will produce you a LL strike thrower but he won't help you maximize your potential.

                                Comment

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