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  • #31
    Originally posted by RobV

    We've been using weighted balls, but only occasionally. When he started wrestling over the winter, it really hindered our throw training, and couldn't use the weighted balls as much as we'd have liked to. I'd like to get those in use on a much more consistant basis to see what we can get out of them.
    Interesting. I have never heard of anyone saying that weighted balls are of any value whatsoever. I'm not trying to be snide, just sharing what I have heard.


    From my perspective, he gets out ahead too soon. When his lifts his stride leg, his head is leaning way forward, all of that potential energy is not available to be used in delivering the ball.

    Also, I think he is standing up too tall as he finishes. I would imagine he should "slam the cellar door" better, if you know what I mean.

    I'm not a pitching guru or anything like that, but these are just observations I made relative to what I have read. If it helps great, if not, that's fine too.

    Tom

    Comment


    • #32
      YAH! Someone agrees with me! Hah.. there really are no value in weighted balls, all the studies done on them that said they increase velocity are pathetic. (And by pathetic I mean.. they don't take into account some many other factors that the study is laughable)

      And yes he does get out too soon!

      And yes he does stand too tall when he finishes!
      While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by XFactor
        YAH! Someone agrees with me! Hah.. there really are no value in weighted balls, all the studies done on them that said they increase velocity are pathetic. (And by pathetic I mean.. they don't take into account some many other factors that the study is laughable)

        And yes he does get out too soon!

        And yes he does stand too tall when he finishes!
        What studies were those?

        Comment


        • #34
          Dick Mills studies.

          Done by the pseudo scientist he hired to give him a scientific stamp......that backfired.

          Comment


          • #35
            Oh? So I take it you've read his 608 page book filled with oh so many scientific references?

            "This study may prove benificial to some in regards to the value of weighted baseballs in developing arm strength. The University of Hawaii did a study that involved 45 highschool pitchers and 180 university pitchers. Three workouts a week over a 10 week period were used. The specifics minus distance were used. The control group used only a standard 5oz ball. The second group used a standard 5oz and heavy 6oz ball for five weeks and then used a standard 5oz and light 4oz ball for te second five weeks. The third group trained with a standard, heavy and light ball simultaneously through the 10 week period.
            Each workout consisted of 66 pitches. The control using only standard balls. The second group threw 11 standard, 44 heavy, 11 standard the first five weeks and then 11 standard, 44 light, 11 standard. The third group threw 11 standard, 22 heavy, 22 light, 11 standard. At the end of the 10 week session the first group showed no improvement in velocity while both the second and third groups showed 6 to 8 percent increases in velocity.
            It was also noted that while throwing heavier balls only,the result was an increase in strength but a draw back was the fine tuning of the nervous system to coordinate a strong but slow movement.
            By incorporating the light weight balls the quicker than usual arm movement taught the players nervous systems to recruit muscular activity very quickly. The concept behind throwing heavy first and then light is based on developing shoulder strength before moving into the quicker than usual phase of the arms motion."



            "All of these studies are confounded.

            We are devoting a section in our upcoming book that explains why all these studies do not actually prove that over or underweighted baseballs work to improve pitching velocity.

            What has to be understood for any of these studies to prove that weighted baseballs work is an explanation of why they would work. None has and none can explain it because it makes no sense as to how such a light object could provide any benefit or any physiological change within a muscle or set of muscles...plus the fact remains that strength within the arm is not an element in pitching arm acceleration or pitching ball velocity. " - Dick Mills
            While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

            Comment


            • #36
              This study says exactly the opposite thing.

              "EFFECTS OF THROWING OVERWEIGHT AND UNDERWEIGHT BASEBALLS
              ON THROWING VELOCITY AND ACCURACY

              Rafael F. Escamilla1, Ph.D., Glenn S. Fleisig2, Ph.D.,
              Steven W. Barrentine2, M.S., James R. Andrews2, M.D., and Kevin P. Speer, M.D.

              Michael W. Krzyzewski Human Performance Laboratory
              Division of Orthopaedic Surgery
              Duke University Medical Center
              Durham, NC, 27710

              American Sports Medicine Institute
              Birmingham, AL 35205

              Running Header: Throwing Overweight and Underweight Baseballs

              Re-Submitted September 3, 1999

              SPORTS MEDICINE

              The purpose of this review was to determine how throwing overweight and underweight baseballs affects baseball throwing velocity and accuracy. Two studies examined how a warm-up with overweight baseballs affected throwing velocity and accuracy of 5 oz regulation baseballs. One of these studies showed significant increases in throwing velocity and accuracy, while the other study found no significant differences. Three training studies (6-12 weeks in duration) using overweight baseballs were conducted to determine how they affected ball accuracy while throwing regulation baseballs. No significant differences were found in any study. From these data it is concluded that warming up or training with overweight baseballs does not improve ball accuracy. Seven overweight and four underweight training studies (6 - 12 weeks in duration) were conducted to determine how throwing velocity of regulation baseballs was affected due to training with these overweight and underweight baseballs. The overweight baseballs ranged in weight between 5.25-17 oz, while the underweight baseballs were between 4-4.75 oz. Data from these training studies strongly support the practice of training with overweight and underweight baseballs to increase throwing velocity of regulation baseballs. Since no injuries were reported throughout the training studies, throwing overweight and underweight baseballs may not be more stressful to the throwing arm compared to throwing regulation baseballs. However, since currently there are no injury data related to throwing overweight and underweight baseballs, this should be the focus of subsequent studies. In addition, research should be initiated to determine whether throwing kinematics and kinetics are different between throwing regulation baseballs and throwing overweight and underweight baseballs.

              Professor Coop-DeRenne, University of Hawaii has done at least 8 studies over 10 or more years involving at least 200 pitchers and has never had an injury!!! More specifically:

              1982: Pilot Study

              Purpose: To determine the effects of overload AND underload baseballs on throwing velocity over a 10 week program.

              Subjects: 10 high school pitchers.

              Group 1: underload baseballs
              Group 2: overload baseballs

              Results: 1. Significant increases in velocities with both groups. 2. Average gains were approximately twice as great would underload group (4.5 MPH), then in the overload group of (2.9 MPH). 3.no arm injuries.

              1984: Replication of 1982

              Purpose: to compare the effects of overloaded AND underload baseballs want throwing velocity over a 10 week training program.

              Subjects: 30 high school pitchers.
              Group 1: overload
              Group 2: underload
              Group 3: control group

              Results: 1.significant velocity increases. 2.Group 1 gains equal 4 MPH, Group 2 gains equal 5 MPH, Group 3 gains equal.88 MPH. No arm injuries.

              1986: Underload Project

              Purpose: to determine the effects of underload baseball training on throwing velocity over a 10 week training program.

              Subjects: 34 high school pitchers.
              Group 1: underload
              Group 2: control group

              Results: 1.significant increases, Group 1, underload it, gains 3 MPH, Group 2, control group, decreased 1/2 MPH. No arm injuries."


              The reason underweight or overspeed training works is because it maximizes neural recruitment.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Baseball36
                This study says exactly the opposite thing.

                "EFFECTS OF THROWING OVERWEIGHT AND UNDERWEIGHT BASEBALLS
                ON THROWING VELOCITY AND ACCURACY

                Rafael F. Escamilla1, Ph.D., Glenn S. Fleisig2, Ph.D.,
                Steven W. Barrentine2, M.S., James R. Andrews2, M.D., and Kevin P. Speer, M.D.

                Michael W. Krzyzewski Human Performance Laboratory
                Division of Orthopaedic Surgery
                Duke University Medical Center
                Durham, NC, 27710

                American Sports Medicine Institute
                Birmingham, AL 35205

                Running Header: Throwing Overweight and Underweight Baseballs

                Re-Submitted September 3, 1999

                SPORTS MEDICINE

                The purpose of this review was to determine how throwing overweight and underweight baseballs affects baseball throwing velocity and accuracy. Two studies examined how a warm-up with overweight baseballs affected throwing velocity and accuracy of 5 oz regulation baseballs. One of these studies showed significant increases in throwing velocity and accuracy, while the other study found no significant differences. Three training studies (6-12 weeks in duration) using overweight baseballs were conducted to determine how they affected ball accuracy while throwing regulation baseballs. No significant differences were found in any study. From these data it is concluded that warming up or training with overweight baseballs does not improve ball accuracy. Seven overweight and four underweight training studies (6 - 12 weeks in duration) were conducted to determine how throwing velocity of regulation baseballs was affected due to training with these overweight and underweight baseballs. The overweight baseballs ranged in weight between 5.25-17 oz, while the underweight baseballs were between 4-4.75 oz. Data from these training studies strongly support the practice of training with overweight and underweight baseballs to increase throwing velocity of regulation baseballs. Since no injuries were reported throughout the training studies, throwing overweight and underweight baseballs may not be more stressful to the throwing arm compared to throwing regulation baseballs. However, since currently there are no injury data related to throwing overweight and underweight baseballs, this should be the focus of subsequent studies. In addition, research should be initiated to determine whether throwing kinematics and kinetics are different between throwing regulation baseballs and throwing overweight and underweight baseballs.

                Professor Coop-DeRenne, University of Hawaii has done at least 8 studies over 10 or more years involving at least 200 pitchers and has never had an injury!!! More specifically:

                1982: Pilot Study

                Purpose: To determine the effects of overload AND underload baseballs on throwing velocity over a 10 week program.

                Subjects: 10 high school pitchers.

                Group 1: underload baseballs
                Group 2: overload baseballs

                Results: 1. Significant increases in velocities with both groups. 2. Average gains were approximately twice as great would underload group (4.5 MPH), then in the overload group of (2.9 MPH). 3.no arm injuries.

                1984: Replication of 1982

                Purpose: to compare the effects of overloaded AND underload baseballs want throwing velocity over a 10 week training program.

                Subjects: 30 high school pitchers.
                Group 1: overload
                Group 2: underload
                Group 3: control group

                Results: 1.significant velocity increases. 2.Group 1 gains equal 4 MPH, Group 2 gains equal 5 MPH, Group 3 gains equal.88 MPH. No arm injuries.

                1986: Underload Project

                Purpose: to determine the effects of underload baseball training on throwing velocity over a 10 week training program.

                Subjects: 34 high school pitchers.
                Group 1: underload
                Group 2: control group

                Results: 1.significant increases, Group 1, underload it, gains 3 MPH, Group 2, control group, decreased 1/2 MPH. No arm injuries."

                The reason underweight or overspeed training works is because it maximizes neural recruitment.
                This study is worthless. Ray Charles can see that the results this study claims to have determined are wrought with academic flaws.

                They include, but are certainly not limited to the following:

                1. the range of the weight of the overweight balls is 12 ounces!
                2. The range of variables is too numerous to begin to mention.
                3. The report does not indicate what manner of measurement was used, when the data was collected, how it was collected or under what circumstances it was collected.

                I could go on and on about this, but that would be a waste of my time. I am taking my kids bowling and then off to a state championship hockey game. From what I gather here I am secure in my belief that overwight balls are of no value.

                Thanks for the reassurance!

                Comment


                • #38
                  No problem
                  While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

                  Comment

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