Setting the hands

[yabby]

If you folks have the time, could you please view this video and indicate if this is something you would or would not teach?

http://clubhousegas.com/index.php?view=article&catid=25%3Ashows-on-demand&id=91%3Aturtle-thomas-on-setting-the-hands-with-the-bat&option=com_content&Itemid=28

This is not something I would not teach my batters to do, I don't see it much in the show either, but from what I observe with other coaches, this is something many of them do teach and insist on.

[yankees32]

This is just loading which is something that you do see in professional hitters, swings.

[FiveFrameSwing]

If you folks have the time, could you please view this video and indicate if this is something you would or would not teach?

http://clubhousegas.com/index.php?view=article&catid=25%3Ashows-on-demand&id=91%3Aturtle-thomas-on-setting-the-hands-with-the-bat&option=com_content&Itemid=28

This is not something I would not teach my batters to do, I don't see it much in the show either, but from what I observe with other coaches, this is something many of them do teach and insist on.

For a better description refer to Dr. Chris Yeager's description of "lead arm extension".

[yabby]

The issue I have with taking your hands back towards the catcher is that it promotes casting, the biggest problem I have with young hitters.

I have looked through many major league batting clips and I don't see a lot of this. I see more bat wrap, I don't see both hands moving back together. Maybe as the body moves forward the hands stay behind for an instant, but there isn't much deliberate backwards movement.
Or maybe I am looking with prejudiced eyes!

[callyjr]

20-36 this season. He sees it one way, The pros do it the other. I wonder what Ryan Howard would say if he told him not to point the bat towards the pitcher and not to raise the back elbow.

Cally

[FiveFrameSwing]

The issue I have with taking your hands back towards the catcher is that it promotes casting, the biggest problem I have with young hitters.

If that's your hangup with bringing the hands back towards the catcher then you'll be glad to learn that it isn't the cause of casting.

Bringing the hands back, as described by Dr. Chris Yeager in "lead arm extension" is a good thing.

In the video clip below Barry Bonds demonstrates "lead arm extension".



The 'red vertical line' references the hand position prior to the "forward weight shift".

Note that the angle in the lead arm is approximately 90-degrees prior to the "forward weight shift".

Barry's lead arm extends back towards the catcher during his "forward weight shift" (i.e., "lead arm extension"). Observe the change in hand position relative to the red vertical line. The back knee moves forward of the red line while the hands move behind the red line. This action of the "forward weight shift" and "lead arm extension" occurs at the same time.

Observe the increased angle in the lead arm after the "forward weight shift". Important: "Lead Arm Extension" occurs during the "forward weight shift"

As for Casting, Donny gave pretty good notes on this.

Casting is releasing the hinge angle early creating a long angle before the barrel gets into the hitting zone.

Casting is common in batters that have poor weight shift.

Maintaining the bat to forearm angle around 90 degrees to just before release is essential.

Casting is losing the hinge angle early.

I would suggest that someone that counter rotates excessively, over obtaining lead-arm extension back towards the catcher, would be more prone to casting.

[callyjr]

If that's your hangup with bringing the hands back towards the catcher then you'll be glad to learn that it isn't the cause of casting.

but it does contribute to casting.

[FiveFrameSwing]

but it does contribute to casting.

More to the point, it contributes to CHP ala Mankin.

[yabby]

FiveFrameSwing:
When I look at the Bonds clip his hands go up and back, not straight back.
Also, he gets a little more bat wrap with this action, therefore his lower hand has moved more than his top hand.
Thomas advocates moving both hands back parallel to the ground without one hand dominating, I don't see this!

[cosmo34]

20-36 this season.

Careful now. Turtle did some amazing things for The U and LSU. With his track record and ridiculous recruiting ability, it's only a matter of time before FIU flips that record completely around.

What he showed in this video is practically the same stuff Miami uses to this day. The drill on the knees is something they do regularly. Doesn't seem to be hurting them at all.

[cosmo34]

Thomas advocates moving both hands back parallel to the ground without one hand dominating, I don't see this!

He said pull back with the top hand.

[FiveFrameSwing]

FiveFrameSwing:
When I look at the Bonds clip his hands go up and back, not straight back.
Also, he gets a little more bat wrap with this action, therefore his lower hand has moved more than his top hand.
Thomas advocates moving both hands back parallel to the ground without one hand dominating, I don't see this!

The "U" shape hand/barrel load that you observe is a powerful load.

The "bat wrap" that you speak of is not "bat wrapping", but a desirable aspect of the pre-swing sequence. You are correct that the lead hand will move back further. Note that Yeager refers to this as "lead arm extension back to the catcher". He does not refer to it as "top arm extension".

According to Donny, wrapping the bat is breaking the hinge angle down to an acute angle early usually during the load. Wrapping is often happening in conjunction with getting the barrel to far around the body to recover or too deep in the neck slot creating a wrapped and trapped bat weakening the kinetic chain. The problem with wrapping is that the bat can get “trapped” whereby the hitter cannot get back to the ball efficiently. In the above video clip Bonds is not "wrapping".

[FiveFrameSwing]

He said pull back with the top hand.

He did say that, and IMO that was bad advice on his part.

[FiveFrameSwing]

FiveFrameSwing:
Thomas advocates moving both hands back parallel to the ground without one hand dominating, I don't see this!

You are correct.

In fact, I translate what you are saying to be that Thomas is advocating something that violates the Hanson Principle. I therefore wouldn't follow that specific advice.

The Hanson Principle (… the one to use):
“Always compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion clips of the best hitters in the world”.
-- Mark Hanson

[tom.guerry]

back arm/top hand dominates for early loading with same sequence as overhand throw, including "lead arm extension''.

lead arm/bottm hand does not get more active until after back elbow starts down to synch upper and lower body (simultaneous back arm and front leg external rotation) "rotation into toe touch"/rubberbandwinding.