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The swing we're working on...

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  • #16
    Tom gave you some good advice on HSBBWEB albeit rather Tom-esque in writing style. No hip coil there. No hip coil because no hand loading ...they work together in great swings. No hip coil no bat displacement. No bat displacement no gap to gap power. Cannot get inside the ball and hit the ball center. Common stall/ plateau point for good potential hitters. He will not advance fast or ever from here without some help.

    Thanks for the time and some detail. I really feel inadequate about teaching him further because I can't seem to get any detailed drills that may correct his deficiencies. Are we at the point of needing to start over from scratch? What can I do to get his hip coil and hand load working together? Are there any suggestions for weight shift? In Cal Ripken's book, he suggests a drill where the kid stands on the rear leg with the front leg lifted; then he puts the front foot down, thus shifting his weight to the front leg, as he hits the ball off of the tee. Do you agree that this will teach proper transfer of weight? Should this even be my biggest concern?



    • #17
      i've been thinking about how to convey (well) what to do to correct this problem.

      First and foremost, your player has to admit that something is wrong, or that change is necessary. If he disagrees with you, progress will be slow.

      Show him his swing, and show him pro's from the same angle, ask him why his shoulders stop rotating into contact and thiers don't. After some run-around you'll have to come to the conclusion that they are better and he needs to be more like them.

      After that, the 'normal' part comes... work... I personally would take the bat out of his hands. Make him stand over the ball on the tee and have him cross his arms over his chest. Then, tell him to imagine a bat attached at his shoulder that runs the same direction as his shoulders (not perpendicular) and ask him to use his body to 'hit' the ball with the 'bat'... He'll have to rotate! no whip will be possible without the hands and bat being there. Don't just gloss over this either, really work on it for a while, maybee dedicate a session to it and not swing a bat that day, just to not mess any feelings up.

      Then when you do go back to using a bat, tell him to turn the way he did before but with the bat in his hands. This is not exactly where you want to finnish really, but i think the feelings are helpfull to expierience.

      You should end up much closer to where you want to be after this. Post up some clips and we'll go from there.

      Everybody else think this is a decent idea?
      "Do not dismiss what you do not understand"
      "A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice." - Bill Cosby
      "There are sound intellectual grounds for holding faith positions" - Fungo 22


      • #18

        email me at [email protected]
        give me your number and I will personally explain


        • #19
          Don't waste your time Sonny.

          He can't/won't produce any video.

          He's lost.

          He won't invest in the information. Why should you invest time in him?
          Last edited by Ohfor; 03-12-2006, 03:55 PM.


          • #20
            Thanks Swingbuster for the call and the informations. I really appreciate the substance and instruction that you offered. My son and I went out and started practicing the drill immediately and just as you said, he complained about it feeling a bit awkward. However; just as you said again, he began to hit line drives into the square of the net one after the other. We'll keep working.

            Thanks again for taking the time to help me decipher this information and more importantly for taking the time to offer some drills to correct/improve my son's swing.

            Chesspirate, thanks for the information that you've offered as well.

            Ohfor said:
            Don't waste your time Sonny.

            He can't/won't produce any video.

            He's lost.
            tell me again what it is you offered??


            • #21
              At this point I'll offer you a bridge in Brooklyn or swamp land in Florida.

              You apparently will fall for anything.

              Did he explain to you there is no such thing as a load....only loading and unloading?

              Did he explain to you that his hand job technique has no chance to unload with a cusp?

              Did he explain to you that his technique may show results against mediocre pitching but won't work against top pitchers?

              Is that what you want? Do you want to sell your son short so he falls off the competition ladder before his genetic potential runs out?
              Last edited by Ohfor; 03-12-2006, 04:09 PM.


              • #22
                Why should you invest time in him?
                Its free is kids playing a game. Some adults are helping them others need to go to the "time out chair"

                Last edited by swingbuster; 03-12-2006, 04:12 PM.


                • #23
                  And that's exactly what it's worth.

                  I forgot. By your own admission a few months ago you said your HBH is a toy. I guess your instruction is "play ground" quality too.

                  I bet your still fighting that "last chosen" play ground phenomenon.

                  No problem. Just make sure he knows that.


                  • #24
                    Excuse me Ohfor, but I must ask, is it your nature to ridicule or reject someone that disagrees with you? I try to listen dilligently to all information offered so that I can come to my own logical conclusion. At this point, you've offered absolutely NOTHING. Swingbuster has taken time to at least offer something. I will not let whatever it is that you might have against him, or his thinking, to influence my decisions. You should try better to keep that to yourself. Your criticism of Swingbuster is of no help to me fact, I find it to be very immature.

                    Now if you have something constructive to offer, I'll be more than happy to listen. Otherwise, as I've said before, I understand that my knowledge is limited. That is why I am relying on your kindness, as well as others who love baseball, to offer a helping hand.



                    • #25
                      If you don't think I offer much then you can't read or comprehend what you read.

                      To each his own.

                      Use busters advice if you want. We'll be here to fix what he screws up.

                      Just hope your clock hasn't ran out when you realize what you did.


                      • #26
                        If you don't think I offer much then you can't read or comprehend what you read.
                        Why don't you be specific Ohfor? Tell me why I shouldn't believe Swingbuster. Give me specific information of what is wrong. Just because you can produce a couple of people to agree with you don't make his information wrong. Help me with specifics please.


                        • #27
                          Keep the bat perpendicular to the spine.

                          Rotate from your center.

                          Get to pitch location by adjusting posture not by using your hands.

                          Do not use your hands in the manner swingbuster suggests.

                          Look for a way that your son can connect the bat to the rotation in such a way that the knob of the bat changes direction as quickly as possible.

                          Always.......always ask your self this question..........

                          Is my time from decision to contact as short as the time it takes a pinball flipper to flip from decision?

                          If not, change.

                          Guarantee swingbusters hand job technique will not deliver the bat to the ball in the small amount of time necessary. He teaches slop. He teaches slack. He teaches a swing that looks good against a tee but will not stand up to quality pitching.

                          Specific enough? There is much more all over this site and others. Read it.


                          • #28
                            Just a quick note here : What I have described as "trapping" applies in the this case [this hitter].



                            • #29
                              Before this weekend we had scored 45 runs to the opponents 5 . We hit 4 HRs in tourney and won against 6 teams. We short games two opponents in 5. I will get you a new run total if you want

                              Ohfer ...when you find yourself in a hole..lay the shovel down

                              Steve...if trapped is the word then trapped it is.

                              Look for a way that your son can connect the bat to the rotation in such a way that the knob of the bat changes direction as quickly as possible
                              That is what we are doing Ohfer...we are looking in this direction and there is only one way to do it.
                              Last edited by swingbuster; 03-12-2006, 05:20 PM.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sonny
                                Excuse me Ohfor, but I must ask, is it your nature to ridicule or reject someone that disagrees with you?
                                You've correctly identified the ridicule. You've incorrectly identified the reason for it. Apart from that, what should concern you is whether this information being served up by Swingbuster is going to help your son or whether it is going to screw him up. Ohfor is trying to help you, whether you like the way he's going about it or not. Read my long-ass post here: Fungo's Post It explains why Swingbuster's advice may help, but it is not anything close to what your son needs to do to develop an efficient, high-level swing. Also see Steve's post here: Englishbey's Post. It explains why Swingbuster's claims lack credibility and his advice is not to be trusted.

                                I try to listen dilligently to all information offered so that I can come to my own logical conclusion. At this point, you've offered absolutely NOTHING.
                                You're doing the right thing. But Ohfor hasn't exactly offered "nothing." All you have to do to understand his views is read posts by Englishbey, ssarge, Mark H., jsiggy, myself and a couple of others. Ohfor's views are not far from ours. Have you taken our advice and contacted Englishbey? Swing instruction doesn't get any better and you can find before & after videos of his students all over the place. If you come to this site and all you walk away with is Swingbuster or Tom Guerry's advice, then your judgment is suspect and your son has missed his chance.

                                Our views have been presented in many threads and there are many threads in which we have challenged Swingbuster and Guerry's views. If you value logic, then their responses to our challenges ought to be instructive, if not a real eye-opener to you. I suggest you spend some time reading them. One reason Ohfor is being so abrupt and abrasive in this thread is because Buster and Guerry's responses to our arguments are so evasive and ridiculous ... and yet they just keep posting the same old crap and misleading people like yourself. We get tired of refuting their bold assertions about how effective their swing theories are with absolutely no video evidence that they've ever help a single hitter. This is the second millennium and they are both well-educated, reasonably computer-savvy people. If they've really helped anyone, they ought to be able to produce some video showing where the hitter was when they started and where they are after receiving their magic instruction.

                                You've been warned. Do whatever you want.

                                Your son's rotation is not really bad at all. Good rotation is one of the most important things a hitter can learn to do. However, his upper body has some problems. His shoulders are counter-rotated when his rotation begins and his hands have too far to go from behind his body. They are also a little bit too high and his back shoulder is raised above his front shoulder. This top-hand, back shoulder/elbow set up creates several inefficiencies:

                                (1) It causes the swing to be very slow in developing. It takes too long to change the direction of the knob and get the barrel to the ball.

                                (2) It prevents the bat barrel from quickly getting into the plane of shoulder rotation and creates swing plane inefficiency. He has to make adjustments with his hands and momentum is thus transferred inefficiently from the rotating hips to the bat barrel.

                                I have, for the most part, given up trying to explain on forums like this what young hitters must do to correct inefficiencies. If you want the best swing instruction available, then I suggest you send a PM to Steve Englishbey and buy his DVD. Then we can help you work through some of your son's problems and help him improve.


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