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  • #31
    It explains why Swingbuster's claims lack credibility and his advice is not to be trusted.

    Strong words Fungo.

    Are you saying I would intentionally mess this kid up. I have coached kids like this for 12 years. We are outscoring our opposition 9-1 now at the 3A varsity level..Thats real. That is not some video BS.

    We have seen the same swing posted 100's of times and the P-C-R answer given and now you guys are changing your tunes and colors like Camelions. Your inclining to what I am saying and starting the "chicken s*** shuffle".


    Your "middle" is expanding to seeing what the bat location and hand pattern can do when it is off the mark.( I am on record as predicting that,,,thanks and Congrats!). Quit making me the villian. At least your not telling these poor kids to learn to turn better for every swing malady you think you see.

    I am sure Steve knows better and more but you "nomes" couldn't see what is happening with a highlighter around it on a still shot. Why don't you just let Steve do his own work and leave me alone too.

    Your just practicing to see who can rewrite the same old tired script so each of you can see if the other really gets it and then your a card carrying member of prickdom.


    You guys offered this nice guy nothing but the chance to purchase something. THat is fine but quit riding the line. Either sell them something or give them something.

    I have, for the most part, given up trying to explain on forums like this what young hitters must do to correct inefficiencies
    Thanks..because you don't know
    Last edited by swingbuster; 03-12-2006, 07:09 PM.

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    • #32
      He knows the three words. Posture. Connection. Rotation.

      He knows them because we use them. Not because he has studied or because he bought the DVD.

      Thread to thread the discussion is different.

      Rotation, lately, has gotten a lot of talk.

      Because of that, buster thinks that's all we do.

      Even though connection is part of the big three. Explain that buster.

      A recent thread turned to connection. Now he says we've changed.

      No, buster, nothing has changed. So, you predicted nothing.

      What's more accurate is you learned a little more for free.

      You just don't know much about what we do.

      All of this is proven..................by the DVD.

      Where's your proof?
      Last edited by Ohfor; 03-12-2006, 07:19 PM.

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      • #33
        we do
        who is WE? And what is it you do ?

        Even though connection is part of the big three. Explain that buster

        Explain why all the kids are dragging the bat with the top hand? That IS the problem. You are failing badly at connection with your recommendations. You are causing late spatial connections even when they are connected to the bottom hand. THose kids cannot hit oppo and you said you don't know Steves position on oppo... Explain that
        Last edited by swingbuster; 03-12-2006, 07:21 PM.

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        • #34
          We is the posse.

          Thank you for providing evidence of the dishonesty I talked about.

          My son hit .403 his senior year. I've said it many times. He learned to square the bat to the ball and hit a line drive over the short stops head.

          That's oppo.

          You knew that, yet posted differently.

          If I said anything about Steve's opinion on oppo I'd like you to point me to it.

          I probably misunderstood one of your incoherent posts which the over/under on is 5.............per day.

          Keep talking so others can learn about you sooner than later.
          Last edited by Ohfor; 03-12-2006, 07:32 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by swingbuster
            Strong words Fungo.

            Are you saying I would intentionally mess this kid up.
            How 'bout that HBH.

            I have coached kids like this for 12 years. We are outscoring our opposition 9-1 now at the 3A varsity level..Thats real. That is not some video BS.
            Buster, who gives a rat's ass. You want me and other unsuspecting dads to take your word for it. Post the video. Your lack of willingness to do so speaks volumes. You are a manure salesman with a mouth full of ****.

            I am sure Steve knows better
            How would you know? You refuse to educate yourself. Sunk costs to high?

            leave me alone...
            Stop dispensing manure.

            You guys offered this nice guy nothing but the chance to purchase something. THat is fine but quit riding the line. Either sell them something or give them something.
            Why don't you sell a few more Destroy-O-Kid's-Dreams HBH's.

            Comment


            • #36
              fungo,
              I appreciate you filling me in on the fact that Ohfor had not really offered nothing. The fact is, for my case at that time, all he had done was tell me not to trust Swingbuster. Maybe I'm not the regular here, but I've tried to be an active member and ask honest questions. What I disagree with is those that bash others because their techniques may be different. The information that I find worthy is the information that tells me why I should or shouldn't believe. If it means that I must go through and read post after post, then perhaps I should do that to find the 'why'.

              As far as Englishbey goes...I have sent an email to him over two weeks ago and guess what?? No reply. That's not information that will help me. Everything he says may be true, but I guess I'll never know if he doesn't respond to my email, huh? Don't be so presumptious.

              Seriously though, thanks for the observations that you've made about my son's swing. As I've said before, this is the information I value. I really don't won't to continue debating who is wrong or right, but I would like advice that I can consider, question, and apply. Afterall, my post is about my son, not anyone's ego.

              Thanks

              Comment


              • #37
                Sonny,

                I couldn’t agree more with Ohfor and Fungo22. I’ve been around long enough to have experienced those two as well as the others mentioned by Fungo22 on forums such as this. They all know of what they speak. Ohfor uses the brute force method to get his point across and he’s usually right. I think that might be beneficial to you at this point in your journey.

                I’ve been down the road that buster and TG espouse. I learned the hard way that it was not optimal. I recently had Steve in to work with my kids and several other players. I also have his DVDs. I can’t stress to you how important it is to get this right at the outset. By all means, talk to Steve. PM me if you would like to discuss Steve's visit and what he can do to help you.

                Tim

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                • #38
                  Don't know what the Englishbey "book" is on hitting oppo
                  .

                  there it is ...........honestly,,,and I honestly believe you mean that

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sonny
                    As far as Englishbey goes...I have sent an email to him over two weeks ago and guess what?? No reply.
                    We've all been keeping him pretty busy. Believe me when I tell you, he's passionate about this stuff. He will be in touch with you.

                    As for Ohfor not offering anything of value, I would disagree. He put his son up for the entire world to look at. There is a lot of good information in that post alone.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by swingbuster
                      .

                      there it is ...........honestly,,,and I honestly believe you mean that
                      You left out the word "book". Were we talking "how to". Or "whether to".

                      What thread is that in? I'll look at the context and explain it.

                      In any case, I've never talked to Steve about it so I wouldn't put words in his mouth.

                      What about my son?

                      We've discussed that over and over at hsbaseballweb and here.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        4 for 4,

                        I agree, there is much valuable information here and I'm very appreciative. I just really don't won't to get sucked into the raging debates as to who's techniques are right or wrong. To a degree, I know I must think, consider, and assess all of it before I try to teach it to my son, but most of the posts to this thread are arguments against each other's beliefs. I prefer substance, or real time advice that will help Jacob.

                        Thanks.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sonny
                          fungo,
                          What I disagree with is those that bash others because their techniques may be different...
                          That hasn't happened. We've bashed him because he will not support his theory with any evidence including video...........even after many requests. I mean a lot of requests.

                          You can see more of those requests in this thread. They will not be answered. Yet he will continue to spew.

                          That is what gets him bashed.....................and will continue to.

                          You have to wonder why he doesn't post a clip don't you.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sonny
                            To a degree, I know I must think, consider, and assess all of it before I try to teach it to my son, but most of the posts to this thread are arguments against each other's beliefs. I prefer substance, or real time advice that will help Jacob.

                            Thanks.
                            That's good. You will need to be his best teacher/filter for all of this stuff. Video can be very helpful when discussing teaching/developing kids and the fact that some won't provide supporting video of before and after of their theory should give one pause.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              "Trapped " is shorthand for various upper body postural characteristics [this includes the bat] that ill-serve the hitters' ability to create well DIRECTED "impulse" of bat and body [[And I am talking about initiation and for a the first few frames thereafter].The effect of which is to variously impede the ability to get the barrel quickly and forcefully into the momentum path of the shoulders.

                              I tried to describe this in more detail in a recent thread.

                              And indeed ,a TOO HORIZONTAL bat angle CAN be included within this defintion. Meaning I am well aware of the potential of a bat that is too horiizontal CAN impede getting the bat "down and around the corner" ie meaning the "moments " are changed such that an "out and around " path can be created.

                              HOWEVER, a TOO HORIZONTAL bat is usually AN EFFECT of something else . [what is "too horizontal"?--------well, I would broadly define it by looking at the "lag/drag" quality of swing and asking , "could the hitter get the bathead into the momentum path quicker ?"

                              In other words the "one plane swing" you are describing as something that is sub-optimal or bad is something that I would describe as AN EFFECT of poor shoulder functioning ,lack of tilting , or subtle extension of the spine [standing up].

                              [And is something that I would define as simply within the continuum of highly effective to highly ineffective swingplane/swingpath.]

                              In the case of this hitter you see aspects of all of the above .Meaning that the set-up ,posture ,and swing initiation , at least in part, fit the defintion of "trapping " ,and how the swing is created and initiated is a function of this .

                              Or you could look at this swing as simply a function of the natural tendency to try to find a way to use the arms to get the bat around.Certain aspects of this swing [in terms of posture and the length of time it takes to load /unload] are common to those who are trying to use their arms to swing the bat.

                              steve

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                              • #45
                                One of the main reasons that Tiger retooled his golf swing was that the exquisite timing requirement of the 2 plane load meant that it was hard for him to predicit whether he would miss left or right. His commonest error was "trapping". This is the same thing in hitting that Mankin describes as "getting behind the power curve".

                                Golf is a good source of info that applies to the swing. 2 vs 1 plane arm loading info is now widely available. Woods has switched from 2 to 1 (now loads arms in shoulder plane.not higher than shoulder plane) which allows him to swing harder, hit longer (more speration between hips and shoulders), vary distance and know he will miss right if at all (unless he is using a situational swing key which forces missing left).

                                Based on the pros and cons of 1 vs 2 plane golf swings, I would say that the golf experience strongly suggests ("prove" would be too strong a word) 2 plane/loading is far superior for hitting due to the reaction time and sweetspot control/adjustment requirements of the mlb wood bat swing.

                                More on cause effect of trapping in golf/Tiger's old swing to follow.

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