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  • #31
    Originally posted by ssarge
    Not questioning the bat spin assertion. But given the pictured bat angle, I'm having a hard time visulaizing how this ball could go oppo-field.

    Regards,

    Scott
    Looks like he had already made contact a couple frames earlier, which would put in going to left center?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ssarge
      Not questioning the bat spin assertion. But given the pictured bat angle, I'm having a hard time visulaizing how this ball could go oppo-field.

      Regards,

      Scott
      Thats ok...would I ever lie to you?

      Comment


      • #33
        Why do you think Barry talks so much about the importance of his top hand? He uses it to stay flat through contact, to get tremendous carry on his balls. Same with Chavez, Glenn Allen Hill, Ryne Sandberg, Pujols and the list could go on. Your top hands is very important to the swing. If you are lazy with it, you will be under alot of balls and get beat often with a good fastball(90+).

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by tom.guerry

          What sort of "plane match"/contact zone is going to enhnace the likelihood of hitting just below as oppose to above.
          Could you rewrite this in English? And to add to your reply, you do not have to hit below the equator of the ball to create backspin.
          Last edited by hiddengem; 03-12-2006, 08:20 PM.

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          • #35
            Here is Pujols staying flat and through the ball. His bat stays flat while the ball goes up. The second frame with the dot is the end of his bat. Now look at his top hand in the last frame it stays low. He was applying pressure with his top hand long before this frame order to stay this flat. Bonds does the same thing.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by hiddengem; 03-12-2006, 09:24 PM.

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            • #36
              Thats ok...would I ever lie to you?
              Actually, no.

              Best,

              Scott

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              • #37
                Originally posted by hiddengem

                All you need to do is listen to McGuire talk. He'll tell you that when he came up he tried to hit the ball with more of an "upswing" and fell back a bit. He ended up hitting the ball higher, and too often with topspin. Then he said he made the adjustment to hit "through" the ball, focusing on taking that top hand off and staying flatter longer. This tranlated into him hitting balls 550ft rather than 450ft.

                .
                You listen to MLB hitters talk without keeping a skeptical attitude you may wind up wandering. "Upswing...fell back a bit"-hmmm. Sounds like he had rotation axis issues to me. Sounds like he found some mental cues that helped hit "hit through" the ball (that sounds kind of like cutting it in half to me) by having a swing axis that wasn't tipping back more during rotation and then took that top hand off to "stay flatter" aka stay on plane and not roll over till later in the swing.

                Lots of problems listening to MLB hitters. First, do they know what they did or just what it felt like to them. Second, what do they MEAN. Interpretation can be flawed without any fault of the speaker. Maybe I'm misinterpreting Mac, maybe you. I'd advise going to the video as your truth detector.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mark H
                  . "Upswing...fell back a bit"-hmmm. Sounds like he had rotation axis issues to me.
                  Actually Mark hit homeruns this way. But he was hitting the ball too square and as a result he hit balls that didn't travel as far as they should have, had too much top spin, and he hit balls that had too much air under them. He made the decision to stay through the ball longer(stay down with the ball longer), And as a result he hit balls that had backspin, traveled much much further and he was much much better hitter because of it.

                  I liken this to how a golfer hits a ball. If a golfer doesn't stay through the ball and let the club do the work all sorts of bad stuff happen. Same with a baseball, if I don't stay through contact long enough, bad stuff happens...roll overs, and if I hit a line drive it often has top spin and doesn't go anywere.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    must hit below equator to get backspin.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Arod getting through a ball

                      A homerun to right field. He's obviously not swinging up through this ball, but his bat actually gets to contact and appears to continue on a flat or downward plane. Big time carry to right field.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mark H
                        You listen to MLB hitters talk without keeping a skeptical attitude you may wind up wandering. "Upswing...fell back a bit"-hmmm. Sounds like he had rotation axis issues to me. Sounds like he found some mental cues that helped hit "hit through" the ball (that sounds kind of like cutting it in half to me) by having a swing axis that wasn't tipping back more during rotation and then took that top hand off to "stay flatter" aka stay on plane and not roll over till later in the swing.

                        Lots of problems listening to MLB hitters. First, do they know what they did or just what it felt like to them. Second, what do they MEAN. Interpretation can be flawed without any fault of the speaker. Maybe I'm misinterpreting Mac, maybe you. I'd advise going to the video as your truth detector.
                        I read this again and again,
                        This makes sense. I can "try" to stay flat with my bat longer but if my body rotation does not allow that, then what am I manipulating the bat with? My hands and arms, most likely.

                        No doubt good hitters use the "stay flat thru the ball" as a cue, but how are they accomplishing this? I think Mark answered this very well.

                        I think this is a thought provoking post Mark H. (thanks)
                        Thanks for the topic HG.

                        Sincerely,
                        LClifton

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by hiddengem
                          Actually Mark hit homeruns this way. But he was hitting the ball too square and as a result he hit balls that didn't travel as far as they should have, had too much top spin, and he hit balls that had too much air under them. He made the decision to stay through the ball longer(stay down with the ball longer), And as a result he hit balls that had backspin, traveled much much further and he was much much better hitter because of it.
                          Hg, If he hit balls with too much top spin or got under them too much, to me, this would mean he was not actually hitting the ball squarely enough.
                          When he made the decision to stay down (maybe maintain posture?)
                          He struck the ball PURE, more consistently. Just the right amount of spin, as often as humanly possible. He had a good cue and I'm glad you're sharing it.

                          Originally posted by hiddengem
                          I liken this to how a golfer hits a ball. If a golfer doesn't stay through the ball and let the club do the work all sorts of bad stuff happen. Same with a baseball, if I don't stay through contact long enough, bad stuff happens...roll overs, and if I hit a line drive it often has top spin and doesn't go anywere.
                          If you liken this to a golfer, I think you would be spot on. Golfers talk about trajectory for max distance. You will hear them say I'm hitting it too high (floats),,,too low (no distance / carry) or they will be hitting it pure. How do they accomplish it? They are constantly talking about "down thru the ball".
                          Greg Norman says out of every round he may hit 4 shots exactly as he intended,(back when he was at the top).
                          The only difference is that you big leaguers have to hit a moving target,.one that is closing fast. Good stuff.

                          Sincerely,
                          LClifton

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Two of the top bat/collision guys (real scientists) are nathan (known most for exitspeed/safety testing work) and Russell known most for bat acoustics related to trampoline effect/how to tune bats to create a more efficient collision.

                            This link has a list of the tiltes of nathans talks which can be googled and played on powerpoint.

                            Becasue of the pitched ballspin, a hit curve ball stays in air longer and goes slightly farther than a hit fastball which has a higher exit speed (other things being equal) but less backspin/carry.

                            See esp his talk from last halloween at UW,slides 30 until end for how the degree of bat/ball contact is "offset" determines trajectory and spin.

                            http://www.npl.uiuc.edu/~a-nathan/pob/talks.html

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by hiddengem
                              Actually Mark hit homeruns this way. But he was hitting the ball too square and as a result he hit balls that didn't travel as far as they should have, had too much top spin, and he hit balls that had too much air under them. He made the decision to stay through the ball longer(stay down with the ball longer), And as a result he hit balls that had backspin, traveled much much further and he was much much better hitter because of it.

                              I liken this to how a golfer hits a ball. If a golfer doesn't stay through the ball and let the club do the work all sorts of bad stuff happen. Same with a baseball, if I don't stay through contact long enough, bad stuff happens...roll overs, and if I hit a line drive it often has top spin and doesn't go anywere.
                              What I said went over your head and you repeated what you have said before.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Becasue of the pitched ballspin, a hit curve ball stays in air longer and goes slightly farther than a hit fastball which has a higher exit speed (other things being equal) but less backspin/carry.

                                Tom,

                                I read this a few months ago and was quite surprised by it. Pretty well documented, though.

                                Best regards,

                                Scott

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