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Cause & effect?

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  • Cause & effect?

    Last year on, FlippJ had posted a miniclip of my son (then 10), in which he said something like "I have found that this... leads to this." I believe he was making a point that lack of proper posture leads to disconnection?

    That is still the battle we fight and I was playing w/ my graphics tools this morning, trying to come up w/ an image that my son could see/understand to stress this. I've explained to (and shown) him that [paraphrased, as I'm trying to be succinct online here]:
    You're used to setting the bat on a plane to meet the ball the same way most young hitters are - by dropping your back elbow during your stride. Once you do that, you've already disconnected your arms from your turning torso. You don't need to tilt over after that, so your shoulders remain [mostly] level throughout the swing. Therefore, your right hand will push the bat down/away from your rear shoulder in order to get the bat down to the ball. This results in a downward path of the bat while the shoulders are in a flatter path = less power and probably less contact consistency.

    ... leads to this:

    Am I on the right track with this (obviously borrowing some terminology from what I've read out here)?
    Keep the table slanted forward (or at least level) during your stride and bend at the waist while sticking your butt out (to get your shoulders over your toes more). Once you get to this position, think of keeping your hands near your rear shoulder through the first half or so of the swing and just turn everything at once - hips, rear shoulder and hands.
    Last edited by MSandman; 03-18-2006, 10:42 AM.

  • #2
    Mike Great stuff,

    When old timey coaches said keep your bat barrel above the ball I think now it was a weight shift cue and a keep your axis vertical( head over belt buckle) until weight shift and then tilt.

    IOWS...don't prematurely hinge the rear knee and drive your rear elbow down until the front leg has the weight.

    Glaus " keeps his barrel above the hands" at this point in the swing via a good weight shift.IMO Glaus has a tremendous " fall to foot plant " in that swing if you look back too. His rear elbow is at the top of the load cycle at footplant. Maintaining the box until weight transfer/ not just toe touch might be a good cue.

    Kevin maybe has not shifted the center of pressure to the front before the upper body move to the ball. OR his rear elbow is not at the top at front foot plant which your box plateau clearly shows. Good imagery

    There will be more points made and I will stay tuned. THis is a great learning op here. Again...great work . THis can help many people. I am anxious to see what others see too
    Last edited by swingbuster; 03-18-2006, 10:50 AM.


    • #3
      Nice observation. It is something i see all the time at the cages, dads telling thier sons to just stride and don't do anything else; well to do that, weight has to stay on the back leg, and that position is created by basically leaning back for most hitters.

      In that clip of Glauss, see how his head is actually slightly ahead of his body's centerline, and the young hitters is behind? That (to me) is the difference between striding (as it is taught today by most) and carrying. (simply put).

      Also, in working at this stuff i came to a personal conclusion. If my setup and stuff goes right, when it is time to actually swing, the most efficient way for my body to do it is to rotate like hell. I experienced this recently and it is an amazing feeling! It is almost like the swing is on Auto Pilot, i load and swing (rotate) that's it.
      "Do not dismiss what you do not understand"
      "A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice." - Bill Cosby
      "There are sound intellectual grounds for holding faith positions" - Fungo 22


      • #4
        I'm aware that his stride is too long and that he hangs back during it. However, I purposely avoided discussing the stride, as I am trying to get the upper body posture right (w/o dropping the rear shoulder to find the plane). And these visuals are to that end.

        IMO, the stride is much easier fixed.

        Thanks tho.


        • #5
          Also, in working at this stuff i came to a personal conclusion. If my setup and stuff goes right, when it is time to actually swing, the most efficient way for my body to do it is to rotate like hell. I experienced this recently and it is an amazing feeling! It is almost like the swing is on Auto Pilot, i load and swing (rotate) that's it.
          Agreed..that is why set up, preswing, shift with head over belt buckle is the most important teaching part. If it is right the rest follows


          • #6
            Guys, I'm not disagreeing w/ the importance of balance during the stride. I just know that, in just about every swing except live, Kevin can execute the stride very well. OTOH, establishing the right posture, and keeping his hands near his rear elbow during the first part of the swing are MUCH harder to achieve.

            Thanks for your input.
            Last edited by MSandman; 03-18-2006, 01:46 PM.


            • #7
              This kid has a very long swing. It's in the ball park but very long.

              It has to be shortened.

              Swingbuster is not capable of helping you. In fact, he'll add length.


              • #8
                Swingbuster is not capable of helping you
                Mike works with his own son in his own way.

                I could fix yours in 20 minutes. The first 19 would be to tell him to stop listening to you. The last minute would be easy


                • #9
                  double post
                  Last edited by Ohfor; 03-18-2006, 01:11 PM.


                  • #10
                    With the success my son has had it would take you years to get him to listen to you. He's seen and heard your sh*t all his life. He, and most everyone else here, KNOWS it doesn't work.

                    Yeah, you could create a good slow pitch softball swing.

                    Something where you have more than .4 to decide and swing.

                    You know, jr. high, high school. Where they hit the sh*t out of mediocre pitching and "take a seat" against the good stuff.

                    If I'm some clips.

                    My son took 86mph college fb to the wall the other night. Oppo too. (which you claim "we" can't do.)

                    Not bad for one who couldn't hit a ball off a tee 3 years ago.

                    When you learn loading/unloading we'll listen.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by swingbuster
                      Mike works with his own son in his own way.
                      We've all noticed that.


                      • #12
                        Ohfer Fable

                        The neighbors hound dog mounted an old lady's poodle as she was sweeping the porch. She walked up behind him and stuck that broom about 8 inches up that dogs butt.

                        The dog ran off howling and she turned to her husband and said

                        " that is just like ole Blue...he can dish it out but he just can't take it"
                        Last edited by swingbuster; 03-18-2006, 01:19 PM.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ohfor
                          We've all noticed that.
                          Just what exactly is this supposed to mean, or are you trying to antogonize ME too? Can you for just one second Ohfor step down off your mighty high horse and treat others w/ some friggin' respect? Do you get a big charge out of insulting people, many of whom are trying just as hard (or harder) than you are to figure this tough stuff out?

                          Why not suggest how to make the swing shorter? I didn't post this still and clip looking for a whole new analysis on what his problems are (I'm painfully aware of them already). Rather, I was specifically looking for thoughts on the cue "Keep the table slanted forward (or at least level) during your stride". If you have some thoughts, please provide them; if not, then just move on and keep your insults (to Donny and in this case to me) to yourself! Are you suffering from such a superiority complex that you just can't keep your fingers off the keyboard? You simply have to tell everyone how stupid, ill-intentioned, and wrong we all are? Over and over and over? It's really tired by now and so stifles the spirit of what this (and other) boards can be.

                          I'm not asking you to blow daisies up my rear; I can take the criticism. That's why I post my son's swing... LOOKING for help. But I really can do w/o cheap insults like "We've all noticed that". Am I soooo strange in my methods just because I don't have the cult's PCR tattoo emblazoned across my ass?

                          If all cues (other than "PCR", of course) are useless and all visuals (other than Steve's DVD, of course) are absolutely useless and the only effective way to learn anything about hitting (in the opinion of many on this board) is to "buy Steve's DVD", then let's stop pretending that this is an open forum about baseball hitting and just call it "Steve's Support Site"? (no offense intended toward Steve and his contributions; I'm making a point)

                          All I'm saying is that I'm looking for ways to help get young kids to develop better "PCR" w/o having to resort to using words like "posture", "connection" and "rotation" w/ a group of 9-12YOs! In case some of you haven't spent much time w/ this group lately, they get that deer in headlights look pretty quick, even if you're demonstrating (and please spare me the "you must be showing them wrong because your kid's swing sucks" speech). That's why I'm trying to evaluate cues/visuals that might get us closer.

                          Ohfor, for once in your posting life, step back and ask yourself if YOU'D like to be treated this way? And if your skin's so thick that you don't mind, would you like someone in your family to be treated this way? It's really beyond rude most of the time and completely confrontational and counterproductive.

                          Learn some friggin' manners. Take a page out of SSarge's book, will ya? That guy can tell you your FOS in a hundred different ways, yet still not make you despise him.
                          Last edited by MSandman; 03-18-2006, 01:45 PM.


                          • #14
                            In my opinion, this is not first and foremost an upper body box/posture problem. It more fundamentally a motor problem. If he were rotating from the middle to initiate and power his swing, his hand/arm set up would not be an issue in my opinion. His real problem, it seems to me, is that his "motor program" is to "drag" the bat to the ball with his hands and arms. Hence the bat drag and the flexing of the front arm to "pull" the bat through the zone.

                            He needs to learn to lock his box in so that his bat is connected to his shouider rotation and then learn to rotate from the middle to move his bat to the ball. I agree with Ohfor that his swing is too long. I'm afraid it isn't in the ballpark. My opinion from what little of his swing I see.

                            By the way, does Glaus look like he is fixin' to push off the front foot to extend his front leg?


                            • #15
                              His real problem, it seems to me, is that his "motor program" is to "drag" the bat to the ball with his hands and arms.
                              Great...the 1000th diagnosis of this condition and still no treatment. So do you stop dragging the bat?

                              You have two choices in baseball...tug / drag the knob or throw/ whip the barrel...pick one

                              Better watch the whole Glaus clip Fungo because he falls to footplant and extends
                              Last edited by swingbuster; 03-18-2006, 01:39 PM.


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