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  • #16
    Originally posted by swingbuster
    Your right it is not the wrist...it is the preswing pattern that give many the ability to throw the barrel/ unhinge the wrist . Sheffield extends the rear elbow on that lsat swing posted. To think you can keep the elbow tucked and have good posture keep rotating and that it will take you to all pitch locations and not throw the bat at times is an optimistic plan
    It would be optimistic. Fortunately, it isn't my plan.

    The flat bat tug doesn't do it for me. The posture, higher bat, shoulder rotation and keeping the barrel in the momentum plane can do it for some.
    I appreciate this honesty. But what implications does it have for a "universal arm action"?

    I can feel that in one plane in golf better that baseball. I feel like I lose ability for late adjustment in baseball staying it one plane and I cannot feel the barrel
    Same problem that retkag complained about. "Feeling" the barrel is an acquired skill. I think it may be easier for some to "feel" the barrel when it drops flat from vertical at the last instant because of the pressure it exerts against the top hand, thus giving you a sense of where it is. I think the same sense can be developed from practicing and visualizing the bat as part of the body attached to the shoulder rotation perpendicular to the spine.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by swingbuster


      That is when I saw kids do some amazing things with the bat. People teaching dead hands hitting to kids saddens me. You know more about the MLB thoughts than me but I cannot believe they think like that
      They absolutely do not. I have never come accross a good MLB player or proffesional player for that matter that didn't think about his hands during the swing. For those people that believe you can just take a swing and not consiously think about unhinging or "realeasing the barrell" with the hands into the ball, I don't believe they would survive at the higher levels, especially with wood in their hands.
      You can tug on the knob of the bat or throw/ snap that barrel . The difference for me is the loading of the hands with the objective of getting whole body envolved in releasing the barrel. They are two distinctly different feels.
      I agree.
      Don Mattingly had a great total body swing but said " it is in the hands".
      Maybe one of the guys around here that understands this stuff better than I can explain this.



      OBTW...your a good person to ask. As you unhinge you wrist to get the snap do you feel your lead leg extension is assisting the power? Are you aware of it? Does it happen in your mind as it appears on clips? Is it just natural and you don't know it? Do you feel your hips drive your leg in extension that far around or do you feel a powerful fron leg boost?
      I consiously think about firming up my front side at the point of contact, if thats what you are asking. And yes I feel that this absolutely aids in the power I produce in my swing.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by swingbuster
        An x- Auburn ss in the early Al bat days that was a great contact hitter had a vertical bat when he was 8..now 51. He told me years ago that he felt like he was throwing the top hand through the center of the ball. You can see a little of that in Bonds and he speaks about the Bonds' top hand. I think Bonds speaks about what he does with the top hand at contact. He is popping the whip mentally with the top hand IMO. Everything else is about getting in position to do that with the most power
        I agree with this.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by fungo22
          Steve talked about it before Paul. He got excited (Copenhagen running down his chin) when someone at one of his clinics made the observation that this is what Steve did when he swung. My cue for my eldest son - who tends to spin around more of a central axis - is to "slam the gate shut into the ball." This produces a better "hook" - which is the key to good "wrist snap." Or so it seems to me.
          That's saying it much better than my attempt.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by swingbuster
            To have the goal and intent of the swing to get a good wrist snap not just a good rotation. A good rotation will not get a good wrist snap necessarily. Since your group withholds your vital information to protect the integrity of the DVD that you feel you have benefited from then I do not know how you get this point across or even if is in the bag.

            Priming the forearms , cocking the bat, getting inside out, keeping the bat behind the mechanism, and rotating with the goal to pop/ whip that barrel on the ball ( see sheffield) is important
            Did you see Jbooths apparatus or Paul's simulations?

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            • #21
              Did you see Jbooths apparatus
              Yes I did. Paul simulations? some I think

              Nyman was talking about this right before it all fell apart. Something about intent and focusing on expending all the energy focused on one point in space. What you describe here is how I interpreted him.
              A little late to the party with this info but I predicted it would all be rewritten soon and renamed to give ownership to an engineer in CT that doesn't play sports. Gee wiz This is absurd. Is there anything that cannot be morphed into his original work.

              When a bat is too flat and a kid is ( according to you guys) dragging his bat and we say get the bat more vertical then it is " oh yeah that is what we have always called " trapped" we knew that all along.

              Gimme a break
              Last edited by swingbuster; 03-19-2006, 05:05 PM.

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              • #22
                Congratulations, Swingbuster. You've gotten HG to aswer all of your questions the way you wanted. You're probably feeling like you've proven something. Let's see what you've proven. You've perhaps established that most high-level hitters think about their hands in one way or another. Sometimes those thoughts are "Trust your hands" or "Throw the barrel" or "Snap the wrists" into contact. But what does this imply for teaching high-level swings to young hitters? Well, what do most young hitters have in common with high-level hitters?

                Let me suggest what have in common: If you would give young hitters a wooden bat, then they would all have wooden bats in common. But apart from their wooden bats, they have almost nothing significant in common.

                You've recruited HG to prove what we already know about MLB hitters: They think and talk about their hands as playing a key role in their swings. What role they actually play apart from being a useful "cue" or "swing thought" is debatable, but is beside the point. So I'll table that issue for now. How about most young hitters? In my experience, their coaches talk about their hands a lot and coincidentally enough, the "strategy" (I think Paul called it the "motor program") of most young hitters to get the bat head to the ball is to do so with their hands, and their swing mechanics reflect this strategy (implement this motor program).

                Do most young hitters power their swing (with their hands) in the same way as high-level hitters? Nope.

                Do most young hitters "connect their bats to their shoulder rotation" like high-level hitters? Nope.

                Do most young hitters load and unload their middle with efficient posture like high-level hitters? Nope.

                Since the swings of most young hitters is already hand dominant, and since what they lack are motor skills which have no necessary relationship to using their hands, does the fact that high-level hitters think and talk about their hands have anything to do with what young hitters need to be taught? Nope.

                Let's turn it around. HG, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering these questions like you answered Swingbuster's:

                How many MLB hitters think about rotating from middle?

                How many think about connection?

                How many think about good posture?

                Scap loading?

                As to firming the front leg. I believe that high-level hitters have a firm front leg. I've repeatedly suggested that the front leg must provide stability and not yield to the forward momentum of the middle. The question is not whether the front leg is firm. The question is whether they drive the front hip to the rear by pushing from the ground and straightening their leg at the knee.

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                • #23
                  Very good post fungo.

                  Especially the last sentence (to me).

                  "The question is whether they drive the front hip to the rear by pushing from the ground and straightening their leg at the knee".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by fungo22

                    Let's turn it around. HG, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering these questions like you answered Swingbuster's:
                    How many MLB hitters think about rotating from middle?
                    I don't know, but I'll bet the % of these hitters that were taught to rotate from the middle when they were young is slim to none.

                    How many think about connection?
                    I don't know, but I've never heard one talk about it.


                    How many think about good posture?
                    I don't know..but they probably think about this more than the first 2.

                    Scap loading?
                    Never.

                    [As to firming the front leg. I believe that high-level hitters have a firm front leg. I've repeatedly suggested that the front leg must provide stability and not yield to the forward momentum of the middle. The question is not whether the front leg is firm. The question is whether they drive the front hip to the rear by pushing from the ground and straightening their leg at the knee.

                    I think by really concentrating on firming up that front side, this really enables you to drive that back hip forward.
                    Last edited by hiddengem; 03-19-2006, 05:29 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by swingbuster
                      Yes I did. Paul simulations? some I think



                      A little late to the party with this info but I predicted it would all be rewritten soon and renamed to give ownership to an engineer in CT that doesn't play sports. Gee wiz This is absurd. Is there anything that cannot be morphed into his original work.

                      When a bat is too flat and a kid is ( according to you guys) dragging his bat and we say get the bat more vertical then it is " oh yeah that is what we have always called " trapped" we knew that all along.

                      Gimme a break
                      What if you didn't worry about who got the credit? We could discuss the HBH instead if you like?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well Fungo, I wasn't going to bring it up but.......


                        HG answered the questions on his own accord with his own answers. These are things I have believed from coaching kids. I was a real boost to hear it from a professional that is not afraid to say what he feels. He is not intimidated by you either.

                        750 MLB players ...best in World. About 15 Nymanites...

                        Who is right? The Nymanites..... just ask them. You guys could make a lot more money being lawyers because in 5 paragraphs you can turn it all around and be right again...oops you were never wrong we just didn't get it .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by hiddengem
                          I don't know, but I'll bet the % of these hitters that were taught to rotate from the middle when they were young is slim to none.

                          I don't know, but I've never heard one talk about it [connection].

                          How many think about good posture?
                          I don't know..but they probably think about this more than the first 2.

                          Never [scap loading]
                          Pretty much what I expected. So what are we to conclude from this, Swingbuster? Should we conclude that since high-level hitters don't think about these things, then young hitters don't need to learn them?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fungo22
                            Pretty much what I expected. So what are we to conclude from this, Swingbuster? Should we conclude that since high-level hitters don't think about these things, then young hitters don't need to learn them?
                            Well, if these high-level hitters don't think about this stuff, then they obviously wern't taught to do it. How did they get to the point they are at?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Pretty much what I expected. So what are we to conclude from this, Swingbuster? Should we conclude that since high-level hitters don't think about these things, then young hitters don't need to learn them?
                              The Nymanite Chicken Sh** Shuffle Feedback Loop

                              1. Compare against clips of the best MLB players in the world.

                              2. Well the young players cannot do what the best players in the world can do

                              etcetcetcetcetctectectectectectectectectectetcetet cetcetectetectectetc

                              Use 1 when you need it then use 2 when you need ...repeat as needed

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                IMO, almost all of them got there despite (is that a word) their training.

                                They figured it out on their own through trial and error. Many times being led astray by well-meaning coaches, and overcoming it.

                                A very long process that could be shortened IF the right instruction were given.

                                Comment

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