Sparks Journey from Little League to College

[Sparksdale]

Be VERY careful. NCAA rules do not allow coaches to approach players until July 1st after their junior year. Violation of this rule could cost the coach the right to recruit your grandson. Worst case, but not likely your grandson could lose NCAA eligibility. Coaches may NEVER initiate contact before the date mentioned. All contact must be initiated by the player. When the player initiates contact it is legal for the coach to have a conversation regarding recruiting.

Maybe that's why the colllege coach talked to my boy's travel coach instead of talking to my boy?

I don't know. Maybe he just wants to tell him good game.... I really don't know.

Like I said I wasn't there. My boy said his arm has never felt as good as it did that day. I asked him how fast he was throwing and he didn't have any idea. I talked to someone who saw him pitching and they didn't know how fast he was throwing but they said he was throwing fireballs.

Anyway, they've played two games in this expensive tournament. Won one and lost one. From what I'm told the boy that pitched the game they lost walked in 5 runs and they lost 7 to 2. In the game my boy pitched they won 12 to 0 and he pitched a one hitter an went 3 for 4 batting.

It's the first game I've ever missed much less an entire tournament. I probably won't get to see him play again this year as I'm looking for work up here in Kansas. I'm 900 miles away from home.

Sparks

[tg643]

Don't get hung up on stats and performance at a showcase. The college coaches aren't looking at stats. They are looking at pieces of meat and their potential upside. If the kid who walked five is 6'3" and throws 90 in high school the college coaches will still be drooling at him. They look at mechanics and decide of they can fix something to corral the wild streak. They see peach fuzz on his face and wonder how much more he's going to grow and develop. On the other hand the college coaches (except D3) will walk away from a 5'8" kid with a five o'clock shadow throwing 80 who's throwing a no-hitter. They figure he's physically maxed out.

[tg643]

Here's a reality check:

1) There are up to 11.7 D1 baseball scholarships to divide about 27 players. Players 28-35 get nothing. A kid who is not a jaw dropping pro prospect will only get 25%.

2) There are up to 9 baseball scholarships to divide among an unlimited roster size in D2.

3) There are 0 baseball scholarships in D3.

4) Not all D1 and D2 programs are fully funded.

[d-mac]

Here's a reality check:

1) There are up to 11.7 D1 baseball scholarships to divide about 27 players. Players 28-35 get nothing. A kid who is not a jaw dropping pro prospect will only get 25%.

2) There are up to 9 baseball scholarships to divide among an unlimited roster size in D2.

3) There are 0 baseball scholarships in D3.

4) Not all D1 and D2 programs are fully funded.

It varies by state, but at Arkansas, a baseball player is usually 100% scholarship if they have a 27 ACT and pretty close if they have a 24. They get 25% baseball, lottery scholarship, academic, Arkansas challenge, and one more. I assume most of the major D-1 schools operate the same way, but I could be wrong.

The introduction of the lottery has changed the way our showcase teams travel. The Premier team still travels everywhere, but the lower teams play instate because of the lottery scholarship. There is no need to travel outside of the state when they can get more money at in state D-2 schools.

[tg643]

It varies by state, but at Arkansas, a baseball player is usually 100% scholarship if they have a 27 ACT and pretty close if they have a 24. They get 25% baseball, lottery scholarship, academic, Arkansas challenge, and one more. I assume most of the major D-1 schools operate the same way, but I could be wrong.

The introduction of the lottery has changed the way our showcase teams travel. The Premier team still travels everywhere, but the lower teams play instate because of the lottery scholarship. There is no need to travel outside of the state when they can get more money at in state D-2 schools.

The players on the team are not gettting a 100% baseball scholarship. That would violate NCAA rules. This does not mean a player can't get academic money and need grant money. My kids were/are on 75% rides with athletics and academics combined. There are a handful of states in the southeast that provide free tuition to all students in the state at state universities if they meet the academic and residential requirements. It has nothing to do with baseball.

[DerekD]

Here's a reality check:

1) There are up to 11.7 D1 baseball scholarships to divide about 27 players. Players 28-35 get nothing. A kid who is not a jaw dropping pro prospect will only get 25%.

2) There are up to 9 baseball scholarships to divide among an unlimited roster size in D2.

3) There are 0 baseball scholarships in D3.

4) Not all D1 and D2 programs are fully funded.

Bingo. I know two girls that were very good HS softball players. They both played D3 and they both had full rides.....on academic scholarships.

[tg643]

Bingo. I know two girls that were very good HS softball players. They both played D3 and they both had full rides.....on academic scholarships.

There isn't a connection between playing a college sport and academic scholarships. The coaches don't hold any power or influence over scholarships that are not athletic. The only influence a coach has outside athletic scholarships is some influence on athletes getting accepted with grades and SAT's below the typical non-athletic applicant. Stanford isn't winning Pac 12 championships with a bunch of valedictorians. Harvard didn't win a hockey national championship with a bunch of skating valedictorians. At the high level academic, very athletically inclined D3's the coach will be allowed to get a handful of players accepted who are below the normal acceptance.

[DerekD]

There isn't a connection between playing a college sport and academic scholarships. The coaches don't hold any power or influence over scholarships that are not athletic. The only influence a coach has outside athletic scholarships is some influence on athletes getting accepted with grades and SAT's below the typical non-athletic applicant. Stanford isn't winning Pac 12 championships with a bunch of valedictorians. Harvard didn't win a hockey national championship with a bunch of skating valedictorians. At the high level academic, very athletically inclined D3's the coach will be allowed to get a handful of players accepted who are below the normal acceptance.

I'm not sure why you're quoting my statement and following it with this. I'm not making a connection between the two. I'm stating that they had academic scholarships and played D3 softball. That's it, nothing hidden there.

[Ursa Major]

At the high level academic, very athletically inclined D3's the coach will be allowed to get a handful of players accepted who are below the normal acceptance.

This sentence alone could prompt a lengthy thread, and it's potentially a little misleading when you talk about "below the normal acceptance". At those top D3 schools (think, e.g., Amherst, Williams, Pomona, etc.), there will be (except for "URM's" and maybe a very few legacies) a minimum set of SAT, GPA and Advance Placement scores that a kid will need to possess to be considered. This filter will give you maybe twice as many kids as the school can accept (if not more). After that, a variety of factors, such as application essays, EC's (extra-curriculars), recommendations, and other subjective factors (e.g., what does the kid add to the mix) will control as to whether a kid is plucked out of the pool of "acceptable" kids. Athletic excellence is one such factor, but so is musical or dance excellence. Yes, a coach will generally have three or four kids whom he can request have their athletic excellence weighted a bit more heavily. But, they still have to meet the very high "minimum" standards.

[Ursa Major]

After the game one of the college coaches talked to my boys travel ball coach. He asked permission to talk to him tomorrow. He said he had good stuff on the mound and some great swings batting.

Sparks, as TG points out, there are very specific rules about contacts between coaches and players that cover your boy, especially between now and next summer. Go get the NCAA downloadable brochure. Memorize those rules.

Since you're hearing all this information third hand, it's possible that you're mishearing how the coach wants to express his interest. Let's hope it's mostly a "if that youngster stops by our campus and wants to drop by and say hello I'd love to meet him," which is okay. But, do not say anything in writing here or anywhere else that might suggest that the coach is initiating contact improperly. Ya follow me? It's just not smart, especially when you are referring in very casual terms to a coach's expression of interest and could be characterizing what the coach is doing in a way that could be read so as to get him in trouble. We don't need the exact details in any case, and frevvinsakes don't mention any schools or coaches by name; if they Google their name and yours (and your real name does come up early in this thread), you could scare off coaches.

[Ursa Major]

After the game one of the college coaches talked to my boys travel ball coach. He asked permission to talk to him tomorrow. He said he had good stuff on the mound and some great swings batting.

Sparks, as TG points out, there are very specific rules about contacts between coaches and players that cover your boy, especially between now and next summer. Go get the NCAA downloadable brochure. Memorize those rules.

Since you're hearing all this information third hand, it's possible that you're mishearing how the coach wants to express his interest. Let's hope it's mostly a "if that youngster stops by our campus and wants to drop by and say hello I'd love to meet him," which is okay. But, do not say anything in writing here or anywhere else that might suggest that the coach is initiating contact improperly. Ya follow me? It's just not smart, especially when you are referring in very casual terms to a coach's expression of interest and could be characterizing what the coach is doing in a way that could be read so as to get him in trouble. We don't need the exact details in any case, and frevvinsakes don't mention any schools or coaches by name; if they Google their name and yours (and your real name does come up early in this thread), you could scare off coaches.

[tg643]

This sentence alone could prompt a lengthy thread, and it's potentially a little misleading when you talk about "below the normal acceptance". At those top D3 schools (think, e.g., Amherst, Williams, Pomona, etc.), there will be (except for "URM's" and maybe a very few legacies) a minimum set of SAT, GPA and Advance Placement scores that a kid will need to possess to be considered. This filter will give you maybe twice as many kids as the school can accept (if not more). After that, a variety of factors, such as application essays, EC's (extra-curriculars), recommendations, and other subjective factors (e.g., what does the kid add to the mix) will control as to whether a kid is plucked out of the pool of "acceptable" kids. Athletic excellence is one such factor, but so is musical or dance excellence. Yes, a coach will generally have three or four kids whom he can request have their athletic excellence weighted a bit more heavily. But, they still have to meet the very high "minimum" standards.

The standards will still be high. They just won't be the same standards as a non athlete. One highly touted academic D1 college told my son an unweighted 3.5 in honors courses and 1250 on the SAT's (Math & English) would be satisfactory. Normally this school takes 4.0 and 1500 for non-athletes. The high academic D3's tend to be tighter on leeway than Ivies. The Ivies need to draw D1 athletes.

The baseball coach at Swathmore (PA) just left after three years for Ursinus (PA). I'm guessing he got frustrated with the small pool of players he could recruit at Swarthmore and still compete in the conference. After having won several conference titles at Arcadia (PA) he was recruited to Swathmore to elevate the program. Swathmore is high end academics. Ursinus is a good school. Arcadia is a pay and you're accepted school.

[tg643]

Sparks, as TG points out, there are very specific rules about contacts between coaches and players that cover your boy, especially between now and next summer. Go get the NCAA downloadable brochure. Memorize those rules.

Since you're hearing all this information third hand, it's possible that you're mishearing how the coach wants to express his interest. Let's hope it's mostly a "if that youngster stops by our campus and wants to drop by and say hello I'd love to meet him," which is okay. But, do not say anything in writing here or anywhere else that might suggest that the coach is initiating contact improperly. Ya follow me? It's just not smart, especially when you are referring in very casual terms to a coach's expression of interest and could be characterizing what the coach is doing in a way that could be read so as to get him in trouble. We don't need the exact details in any case, and frevvinsakes don't mention any schools or coaches by name; if they Google their name and yours (and your real name does come up early in this thread), you could scare off coaches.

My son was approach after soph at clinics by college coaches who were on the field instructing. In casual conversation they asked if he had visited the campus and/or filled out the online recruiting questionaire. From that my son was supposed to figure out to initiate contact. When the player initiates contact the coach can respond. It's the only way to have a serious recruiting conversation before July 1st after junior year. It's how early verbals occur. My daughter verballed (softball) at the end of the summer just before junior year started. She was approached in a similar fashion to my son a year before July 1st. The college coach asked someone on the coaching staff at a showcase if she had visited the campus.

Some of the NCAA rules are hokie, can be considered jokes and very easy to get around. But you better understand them and not break them in a manner that can affect recruiting and eligibility.

[Sparksdale]

I'm up here in Kansas about 700 or 800 miles from home. I found a job but got laid off after the first week.
I'm not as young as I used to be and we were doing Lead Abatement in 125+ degree heat. I almost died from heat exhauston.
Got to find a job that wont kill me.

On a positive note my boy plays in a tournament this coming weekend and I'm going to be able to go home and see him play. I've missed two tournaments and it's about killed me. I dont think he's even noticed I wasn't there. Maybe someday when he is older he will recall things and I want hiim to remember that I supported him.... even if he doesn't think so right now.

Times are pretty tough at our house and sad to say baseball has taken a backseat. I just have to find some work to support my family. I've given up my writing. I just couldn't make any money..... frankly I'm not good enough. The world is filled with people who think they can write but only a select few can write well enough to earn a living.

I'll try to update the thread after our tournament this coming weekend.

Sparks

[Ursa Major]

The standards will still be high. They just won't be the same standards as a non athlete. One highly touted academic D1 college told my son an unweighted 3.5 in honors courses and 1250 on the SAT's (Math & English) would be satisfactory. Normally this school takes 4.0 and 1500 for non-athletes. The high academic D3's tend to be tighter on leeway than Ivies. The Ivies need to draw D1 athletes.

You're addressing 3 different levels here. For the level we were addressing - top academic D3's - the kid could be a superstar and anything less than a 3.9 unweighted and a 1500 M/E SAT still won't get him a sniff. My point was that you need to define what you mean by 'standards' - they'll still need to meet high numeric standards and are as likely as not to have better such scores than other kids with top non-academic talents, say in art or in the performing arts.

The baseball coach at Swathmore (PA) just left after three years for Ursinus (PA). I'm guessing he got frustrated with the small pool of players he could recruit at Swarthmore and still compete in the conference. After having won several conference titles at Arcadia (PA) he was recruited to Swathmore to elevate the program. Swathmore is high end academics. Ursinus is a good school. Arcadia is a pay and you're accepted school.

I'm very familiar with the Swarthmore situation, but wasn't aware why the coach left. A kid who will be playing there next year plays summer ball with UMinor (who talked extensively with the old coach), which is how we found out about the departure. I'm not sure what would make you think he 'couldn't compete' with the kids available - the team was 21-16 and in fact split its season series with Ursinus. Ursinus was 18-22. So, unless you've got some inside information, there may have been something else going on.