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  • Originally posted by tg643 View Post
    It's 16U? It's not a showcase. The best sixteen year olds are usually playing 17/18U showcase ball.
    tg, I'm pretty sure they have 16U showcase ball where some of the best players play.
    Last edited by songtitle; 08-05-2012, 06:46 PM.
    efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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    • Originally posted by songtitle View Post
      tg, I'm pretty sure they have 16U showcase ball where some of the best players play.
      If 16yo's are good enough they typically play up to 17/18U.

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      • If TG didn't do it, it doesn't exist :o

        June:
        - PG 16U BCS Finals, Ft Myers

        July:
        - WWBA 16U National Championship, East Cobb
        - 16U PG World Series, East Cobb
        - 16U Cup, USA Baseball, NC

        Aug:
        - 16U Labor Day Classic, Ft Myers


        Orlando Scorpions 16U schedule
        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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        • Originally posted by jojab View Post
          You still can't answer my question, can you?

          Here is what I find interesting about your comments. By your own admission, scouts use radar guns to pick kids out if a crowded field. Now, do you think the scouts after reading the radar guns will select the pitchers throwing 83 to 85 mph but with exceptional control or the ones throwing 95 mph?

          Yet you have no interest in using a radar gun to train your pitchers? You have no interest in using a tool that might motivate little Jonny to want to throw harder. No -- we don't want little Jonny throwing harder. He might hurt himself.
          I know this is an old post (July 2006) but reading about radar guns, which I also believe should not be used below high school age, I wonder how jojab son is doing?

          BTW, I have never gunned my 13 yo son and he has pitched since he was 9 yo. I've stressed mechanics over speed with the emphasis on throwing as hard as you can control. After his 2nd yr of travel ball he has worked to the #1 spot as pitcher. There was one or two games in a tournament where I saw him throw as hard as I've ever witnessed (majority strikes). He did this on his own because his body felt good that game.
          Last edited by tradosaurus; 08-06-2012, 05:48 AM.

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          • Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
            radar guns, which I also believe should not be used below high school age
            What kinds of bad things can happen if a radar gun is used? These bad things won't happen after kids are 14?
            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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            • Originally posted by songtitle View Post
              What kinds of bad things can happen if a radar gun is used? These bad things won't happen after kids are 14?
              I think we beat this to death.... First- using chronological age is wrong with this topic. JMHO
              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
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              • Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                What kinds of bad things can happen if a radar gun is used? These bad things won't happen after kids are 14?
                Kids don't fully develop until late teen years.

                Having a kid know his pitching speed will naturally cause him to want to beat that score.

                You are asking for developmental and physical issues when a kid pushes himself (or the parent pushes the kid) too hard at a young age.

                Patience is the key with developing pitchers at an early age.

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                • TG I have to disagree about all good 16s playing up on 17 teams, at least down here it is so hard just to make the A-team for an elite club that is in your age group and they now go all the way to a D-team and it looks like B-team kids are starting to commit D1 too. If I look at say the Orlando Scorpions elite 17U team I see 4 2014s on a team of 23. I do agree with what you are trying to get across to Sparks which is a strong dose of realism, I have no problem with that, you are very good about this. Where I disagree is the notion that there are a ton of 16Us playing on 17U elite teams. I would hate to toss a bucket of water on some kid's dream because he couldn't play up in summer ball, it's really hard to make these teams, some kids come from as far as Tallahassee and Ft. Myers to Orlando (total oppo ends of the state) to get on teams like the Scorps or FTB Mizuno. I just checked the roster of the 17U Scorpions a local team who does pretty well nationally. Their commitments breakdown like this:

                  UCF - 4
                  FSU - 4
                  Florida - 4
                  Ole Miss - 2
                  Stanford - 1
                  Auburn - 1
                  Fla. Int' - 1
                  Fla. Gulf Coast - 1
                  S. Car. Upstate - 1

                  23 kids, 19 committed, and at least 3 that are not, are total big-time D1s just haven't committed for whatever reason.
                  19 - 2013
                  4 - 2014

                  The 2014 committments - Ole Miss, UCF, Fla. St., To me it looks like the one kid not committed as a 2014 was added late in the season. Plus we don't know if all of these kids are 2014's who were held back or what. Some of the 2014s that play 16U ball are going to be getting D1 offers soon enough.

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                  • Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                    If TG didn't do it, it doesn't exist :o

                    June:
                    - PG 16U BCS Finals, Ft Myers

                    July:
                    - WWBA 16U National Championship, East Cobb
                    - 16U PG World Series, East Cobb
                    - 16U Cup, USA Baseball, NC

                    Aug:
                    - 16U Labor Day Classic, Ft Myers


                    Orlando Scorpions 16U schedule
                    You listed 16U tournaments, not college/pro prospect showcases. As fot the term college/pro prospect showcase" any idiot can run one. What matters is if college coaches and pro scouts show. I/ve heard many complinats about no name showcases where only a handful of coaches appeared. The key is nort who has been invited. The key is the history of what teams coaches and scouts have appeared in the past.

                    When I ran a 16U team we signed up for a 16U D2 showcase. I knew it wasn't going to be a big deal. I told the players and parents as such. It was the only tournament available in the area that weekend. The only college coach in attendance was the coach of the team running the showcase. It was also mandatory to pay to stay in their dorms and pay for the food in their cafeteria. The tournament should have been called the "Pay for our spring trip" tournament.
                    Last edited by tg643; 08-06-2012, 12:28 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Encinitas View Post
                      TG I have to disagree about all good 16s playing up on 17 teams, at least down here it is so hard just to make the A-team for an elite club that is in your age group and they now go all the way to a D-team and it looks like B-team kids are starting to commit D1 too. If I look at say the Orlando Scorpions elite 17U team I see 4 2014s on a team of 23. I do agree with what you are trying to get across to Sparks which is a strong dose of realism, I have no problem with that, you are very good about this. Where I disagree is the notion that there are a ton of 16Us playing on 17U elite teams. I would hate to toss a bucket of water on some kid's dream because he couldn't play up in summer ball, it's really hard to make these teams, some kids come from as far as Tallahassee and Ft. Myers to Orlando (total oppo ends of the state) to get on teams like the Scorps or FTB Mizuno. I just checked the roster of the 17U Scorpions a local team who does pretty well nationally. Their commitments breakdown like this:

                      UCF - 4
                      FSU - 4
                      Florida - 4
                      Ole Miss - 2
                      Stanford - 1
                      Auburn - 1
                      Fla. Int' - 1
                      Fla. Gulf Coast - 1
                      S. Car. Upstate - 1

                      23 kids, 19 committed, and at least 3 that are not, are total big-time D1s just haven't committed for whatever reason.
                      19 - 2013
                      4 - 2014

                      The 2014 committments - Ole Miss, UCF, Fla. St., To me it looks like the one kid not committed as a 2014 was added late in the season. Plus we don't know if all of these kids are 2014's who were held back or what. Some of the 2014s that play 16U ball are going to be getting D1 offers soon enough.
                      I didn't say "tons." I said "the best." If a kid is playing 16U chances are the college coaches can wait a year to see them.

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                      • Originally posted by Encinitas View Post
                        ....and it looks like B-team kids are starting to commit D1 too.
                        Forget kids committing to college.....

                        The 90th pick in this year's MLB June draft played on his organization's "B" team.....the kid ahead of him on the "A" team went #78.

                        The organization had a total 10, 2012 HS players drafted this year from their "A" & "B" teams (1 first rounder, 2 second rounders, a third rounder, and on down) .....and 18 in total. Fourteen of the 18 signed, and two others (another 2012 HS graduate) signed as free agents.

                        As of last year's collegiate season, the organization had 61 players playing D1 ball (freshman through seniors), and umpteen others playing D2, on down through JC ball someplace....unfortunately, 16 year olds have a difficult time making this organizations "A" & "B" team, regardless of how good they are.

                        Much depends on which part of the country the opinions of the posters come from.....this is a SoCal organization.

                        BTW, in the 2011 MLB draft, they had 13 of their HS players drafted (four of them in the 1st round).....and 24 players in total if you count their college team(s).
                        Last edited by mudvnine; 08-06-2012, 03:44 PM.
                        In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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                        • You can always find the exception to the rule whether it be a handful of players or an organization or two. In the big picture I'll continue to stand behind my position on the issue.

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                          • Rapture:

                            Thanks,

                            I wasn't there but I know our team played pretty well until the last game which they pretty much got their heads handed to them. For some reason on the first day of pool play our coach decided to pitch a boy that is not a pitcher and tops out in the low 70's with no off speed pitches. He doesn't normally pitch for a reason. The coach said he didn't want to burn one of his "Aces" in the first game. Doesn't make sense to me because if you lose that first game (single elimination) then why on earth did you save a better pitcher that gives you a chance to win. Anyway it's neither here nor there...... if we had won that game it would have been a good decision I reckon.

                            I think our boys saw some real competition. They are only triple A (last year they were AA) and almost all the teams in the World Series were "Elite" teams. So they were playing way out of their class. But they fought hard and gave it their all.

                            Unfortunately our team has some serious holes the least of which we only have two or three good pitchers. They pretty much ran out of pitching the first day. Not to mention they had never faced the kind of pitching they saw down there so they had trouble scoring runs.

                            Thanks again......
                            Sparks



                            Originally posted by raptor View Post
                            Sparks and his story was the reason I joined this site after reading his whole journey. Compelling read.
                            it was the usssa 16u championships.
                            http://www.usssa.com/sports/Tourname...amentID=805350

                            No Calif or tx teams and ecb has top teams playing elsewhere right now but it looks like most of the top south Florida teams were in attendance. Sparks..your boys team did fine in bracket play..just ran into the freshman teams one stud id guess first round of pool.

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                            • My younger kid who is technically a 14U was offered up as a mercenary for a team in that Kissimmee USSSA but apparently they couldn't get it pulled together. Some of these seem to be regular travel teams that I've not heard of. Around there is a real push to get on these showcase type teams after 16, and around here that's Chet Lemon's Juice, FTB, Scorpions, CFBL Elite etc. So i don't see a lot of those teams in the tournament with the exception of FTB, but I'll say this there are plenty of good players who aren't playing for those teams. Our teams were announced in late Feb or early March, we had this big meeting in May and about 5-6 kids dropped off (after paying deposit) when they saw exactly how much travel would be involved. Well kids like that have to play somewhere, so my point is you can't even poo-poo this and say well the Juice and Scorpions Purple weren't there. Obviously that Heat team was pretty loaded, I have a good friend who's kid is on FTB Black.

                              Honestly Sparks a group of us are putting together a 16U team and looking at this lets me know there are some tournaments out there that can be played locally that I was not even aware of. I've been so hung up on all the PG stuff happening all summer that I missed some of these. Were you the Shoals team? I just ask because my in-laws live up there in that part of AL (florence)

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                              • Originally posted by tg643 View Post
                                If 16yo's are good enough they typically play up to 17/18U.
                                Originally posted by tg643 View Post
                                You can always find the exception to the rule whether it be a handful of players or an organization or two. In the big picture I'll continue to stand behind my position on the issue.
                                All I'm saying is that "good enough" is all relative.

                                If 16yo's are making 17/18U teams out in your area, than it goes to reason that the 17/18Us in your area are obviously not "good enough", or there aren't that many of them if 16yos are beating them out on the upper aged teams.

                                Maybe a "man-child" like Harper did it, but talk about "exceptions", it's the single 16yo on a 17/18U that is the "exception"......at least around these parts.

                                Now if you want to say that sending HS freshmen and sophomores to high-priced, so-called "elite", 16U showcases is a waste of money I'm OK with that, but let's at least make logical statements about where 16yos should be, and are typically playing.
                                In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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