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  • #16
    I was going to wait and let Buster comment on that one
    12-1 3 HR Tuesday

    10-1 2 HR Friday

    ..............ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RobV
      Sorry.....but I don't see any clips...:noidea.....just a man holding a beautiful little boy
      Me too. What, the boy doesn't have a bat in his hands yet?

      Comment


      • #18
        Can someone explain why the back elbow seems "to go up" as he gets in the launch position.

        I am not sure if it's good or bad, just an observation. Seems to me that would put you in a tough position on a high fastball.
        "Tip it and rip it" - In Memory of Dmac
        "Hit the inside seam" - In Memory of Swingbuster

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        • #19
          A posture change is what gets you to the high fastball.

          Comment


          • #20
            A posture change is what gets you to the high fastball.
            And it is the front leg that takes you there( steers you to that ball and getting on top of an oppo ball). If your weight still back you will upper cut the up ball and carve the away ball ...trust me on that one Ohfer...yeah right

            Can someone explain why the back elbow seems "to go up" as he gets in the launch position.
            His shoulders are simply turning away in the plane that he anticipates the ball will come in on. The elbows ( both) are on either side of the shoulder rotation

            Everyone is pretty quiet about the fact that he is actually counter rotating the shoulders...something they say you cannot do but Epstein says you can......I guess it just depends on who does it. I am OK with it if you make it work....

            Ofher writes:

            You didn't leave anything out on purpose did you?

            Like arm action?
            Arm action can take care of counter rotation...which do you want now Ohfer
            Last edited by swingbuster; 03-25-2006, 07:04 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              "A posture change is what gets you to the high fastball."


              Agree - However I am not sure I like the rear elbow "going up" - with a 90 mph fastball you don't have much time to adjust. Obviously he knows where the ball will be because of the machine so he can get away with things because he knows where the pitch will be. He also knows the speed.

              I would think he could make the same great swing with the rear elbow a little lower, thus he would be in a better position for high and low pitches.
              "Tip it and rip it" - In Memory of Dmac
              "Hit the inside seam" - In Memory of Swingbuster

              Comment


              • #22
                I do "SEE" the arm action in GEM's swing,same universal sequence as always,just an inefficient version:

                1-internal rotation of back arm synched with internal rotation of lead leg,bat comes up vertically some

                This would be "BHUT" IF you got the lead arm in close to the body (which makes for a quicker,more compact,probably "BETTER" swing (see fuller/"better" arm action in control swing from similar bp angle below.

                Hard to improve quickness and plate coverage by virtue of bellying up (requires getting close to plate in stance) with such a "flat bat".

                2-lift of back arm/pinch of back scap (some)

                Bat coks toward pitcher some

                3-Synched external rotation of back arm and lead leg

                bat uncoks back toward catcher/down toward developing swing plane

                winding rubber band,front foot turned open some

                prelaunch tht

                4-internal rotation of lead arm, bat "pulled" (for the Lau knob pulling cue-ters) into swing plane

                tht at launch

                Compared to the lefty role model here, note a certain looseness in GEM's swing (different kind of "slop" that has to do with visual markers's of joint sequence,NOT "frame counting") with top hand getting away from back shoulder,and "LATER" batspeed.

                In the role model, the "hands have stayed back" and the back is still turned more at contact - "early" batspeed:

                http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Bonds01.mpeg

                Without the necessary "full" and "well synched" arm action. you can not execute a swing optimized for quickness and early batspeed with acceptable spatial adjustment.

                The "right" arm action will "induce" the right body synch once the body is in the ball park, so to speak.

                It does not work the other way.Focus on lower body or middle will not induce the "right"/"universal"/optimized arm action sequence.

                I would keep trying to emulate the greatest trial and error result of all time well ilustrated here.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Epstein has the best model of high ball adjustment. It is based on lots of experience that is in agreement with Williams thoughts on how to "get on top" with the belly-up make history on the inside type of swing.

                  The late adjustment is primarily via "shoulder tilt".

                  The shoulders will be more level when tilting IF the back shoulder is elevated.

                  For high ball,the back shoulder needs to get up (or for high heat better already BE up - as in Pujols hand position in stance,for example or get up in time after hand drop/hitch as in others).

                  Then as Epstein emphasizes, the more level shoulders will force weight more forward,as the rear shoulder position/action "FORCES"/induces/synchs with less back knee hinge (back leg works as hinge at this point in swing,any turning of the back leg is via hip turn which is initiated from the front which has been prepared for by virtue of the front leg rotating open in the front hip sockt in the rubber band winding phase).

                  The rotational axis takes longer to get more upright with more forward weight shift which is why high heat can be hard to catch up to.

                  Hitters who want to muscle up and hit with a (usually) dominant back arm tend to lean back (more and more as time goes on due to innate preference for "top hand dominance") and uppercut and can not catch up to high heat/get taken up the ladder.

                  When they start uppercutting too much,they need to get back in the envelope by "getting more on top".This was one of Williams main approaches to slump busting.

                  This is commonly felt as getting the top hand up/keeping it up. The top hand should keep its relationship with the back shoulder which is how this cue tends to work.

                  Low ball and inside location require less forward weight shift.



                  The weight shift for in vs out is controlled more by how the swing radius is set which is related to how much the lead arm is stretched earier in the swing,pretty much done by heel drop time (drop and tilt).



                  The the "drop and tilt" will finish adjustment (tilt of shoulders creates more or less upright/forard tilt of axis) by how shoulders tilt as they resist turning open with the hips.

                  Degree of "sit"/ "vertical load" is maximum for low ball/axis leaned back type swings, but some vertical load is a part of every good swing. This is why "posture"/"spine angle is not a very good description of the adjustment process. Some degree of sit is necessary for all good swings, BUT the idea is NOT to get the spine angle right early on and make "one move".Instead, the idea is to always load well and anticipate adjusting as location is recognized.

                  Swing radius is set early for inside,and "sit" is unterrupted early for high ball.

                  Swing needs to be though of as supporting late on the fly adjustment and "early batspeed".

                  gogogogoGO or gogogogoNogo.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Mambo #3.....

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Then as Epstein emphasizes, the more level shoulders will force weight more forward,as the rear shoulder position/action "FORCES"/induces/synchs with less back knee hinge (back leg works as hinge at this point in swing,any turning of the back leg is via hip turn which is initiated from the front which has been prepared for by virtue of the front leg rotating open in the front hip sockt in the rubber band winding phase).
                      So, more weight on the back foot for lower pitches? Which is what I asserted about Epstein mechanics a month ago (you didn't acknowledge).

                      I'd be careful here, Tom. This is a slippery slope on keeping that weight on the back foot. As you know. Because while getting more weight forward on an upper pitch might sound attractive, there IS a corollary (getting LESS weight forward for the low pitch). Meaning keeping weight on the back leg. Which doesn't sound attractive, to much of the hitting universe.


                      Further, I don't believe this is consistent w/ what you quoted Epstein to "mean" recently, which was that the dip of the rear shoulder DRIVES rear knee hinge. Or do I remember incorrectly? (possible).


                      Important, because again, Epstein's demographic ain't you. It is young hitters, who almost universally will be supervised by folks who will dutifully do the drills as presented. Without desire, opportunity, or ability to build a universal swing model.

                      I also think it is your interpretation / attempt at reconciling Epstein - not HIS actual position. And I think this "universal model" has gotten so complicated that it is NOT reconcilable. Attempts to do so just create inconsistencies in other areas - too many holes in the dyke.


                      That said, your description above is BETTER - and more reflective or reality, IMO - but still not the way I see it. Still no point in having a hinge unless it is a weight bearing joint. And since rotation HAS already started, it seems to me there BETTER have been weight momentum forward.



                      The weight shift for in vs out is controlled more by how the swing radius is set which is related to how much the lead arm is stretched earier in the swing,pretty much done by heel drop time (drop and tilt).
                      Are you saying the LOAD varies - and causes weight shift to vary - based on stretching of the lead arm?

                      If I understand you correctly, the variable stretching of the front arm during the load initiates all in / out adjustments?

                      No wonder Epstein cedes half the plate to the pitcher. If that front arm gets stretched too far, there's no way to "unstretch" it. Which would lead hitters to habitually UNDERSTRETCH it, I would think. That would be a normal reaction, over time. Which would gradually degrade the stretching process to a later and later point in the swing. Which would gradually cause hitters to be unable to cover the plate.

                      I've never thought of this, but my initial reaction is skepticism that it can be accomplished.



                      The rotational axis takes longer to get more upright with more forward weight shift which is why high heat can be hard to catch up to.
                      Seems to me more an issue of gravity than weight shift.



                      Hitters who want to muscle up and hit with a (usually) dominant back arm tend to lean back (more and more as time goes on due to innate preference for "top hand dominance") and uppercut and can not catch up to high heat/get taken up the ladder.
                      The very criticism - whether or not it is true - often leveled against "Epstein" hitters.


                      Swing needs to be though of as supporting late on the fly adjustment and "early batspeed".
                      I like the sound of that. But again, the more bat speed you have, the less able you are to adjust. How about early postural adjustment followed by early bat speed? Meaning a quicker swing, ability to wait longer to commit, and a propensity to take most of the variability out of the swing before launch?

                      Kind of like adjusting for the in / out by how you stretch / load the front arm?

                      Only better.


                      If I interpret you correctly, Tom, you are saying to adjust for in / out EARLY. And adjust to high / low LATE. Do I capture this accurately?


                      Regards,

                      Scott
                      Last edited by ssarge; 03-25-2006, 09:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tom.guerry
                        I do "SEE" the arm action in GEM's swing,same universal sequence as always,just an inefficient version.
                        The efficient version is there. You just can't SEE it because it "happens at a deeper than surface level."

                        1-internal rotation of back arm synched with internal rotation of lead leg,bat comes up vertically some

                        This would be "BHUT" IF you got the lead arm in close to the body (which makes for a quicker,more compact,probably "BETTER" swing (see fuller/"better" arm action in control swing from similar bp angle below.

                        Hard to improve quickness and plate coverage by virtue of bellying up (requires getting close to plate in stance) with such a "flat bat".

                        2-lift of back arm/pinch of back scap (some)

                        Bat coks toward pitcher some

                        3-Synched external rotation of back arm and lead leg

                        bat uncoks back toward catcher/down toward developing swing plane

                        winding rubber band,front foot turned open some

                        prelaunch tht

                        4-internal rotation of lead arm, bat "pulled" (for the Lau knob pulling cue-ters) into swing plane
                        He doesn't need to do all these things in the order you have dictated, Tom. If you really understood what the body needs to do to create bio-mechanic efficiency, you wouldn't be focussing on all these contrived components of a "universal sequence."

                        If you're a young (or older) hitter trying to figure this stuff out, "you don't want Tom Guerry in your head." (Scott?)

                        Without the necessary "full" and "well synched" arm action. you can not execute a swing optimized for quickness and early batspeed with acceptable spatial adjustment.
                        This "full and well-synched arm action." Does it have to be visible or can it be "happening deeper than the surface level"?

                        The "right" arm action will "induce" the right body synch once the body is in the ball park, so to speak.
                        So I guess it's misnamed. It should be called the "armo-muscular system."

                        It does not work the other way.Focus on lower body or middle will not induce the "right"/"universal"/optimized arm action sequence.
                        Nobody's talking about "focusing" on the lower body or middle, Doctor Guerry.

                        I would keep trying to emulate the greatest trial and error result of all time well ilustrated here.
                        In other words, "Be the Barry." Good advice, Doctor.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          In other words, "Be the Barry." Good advice, Doctor
                          Fungo, Insert "gibbon" for the word Barry and add "dammit" to the end and you will begin to understand.

                          LClifton

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                          • #28
                            I expect that Cletus will be in touch (if he hasn't been already), HG. But for what it is worth, I think your connection and initial swing plane is much better. I can't see it very well, but I hope you keep working on creating stability quickly in the front leg.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Got me on the "don't want XXXX in your head," reference Fungo. No idea.

                              Regards,

                              Scott

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Well, today I really focused on starting tall and doing exactly what you guys see in the video. Started tall, dynamically loaded by tilting forward while "forward by turning". Had an amazing BP. Probably hit 10 jacks out of 25 swings and probably 10 other pee rods around the yard. I felt connected and absolutely "knew" when I had left my hands behind and dissconected.

                                On to the game.

                                First AB..Tall glass of water on the mound throwing pretty hard.
                                First pitch strike,
                                Second pitch Cutter away, check swing ball.
                                3rd pitch HR to left Center about 420. Fastball in about thigh high.

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