Recent clip/ Post Steve E.

[Ohfor]

...The rear leg does not start turning until the hips turn it which happens after the front leg turns open.

this is not a "nice to have".

This is a requirement for the high level swing.

I feel sorry for these poor saps. They just can't get to a high level swing.

[jalbert]

The rear leg does not strat turning until the hips turn it which happens after the front leg turns open.

so when the hips turn they turn only the beg and the front leg works independently on its own? ie front leg does it's thing, or essentially gets out of the way so that the hips can turn?

the hips can't turn if the front leg opens??

why wouldn't hips be the cause for legs/knees to turn?

[Mark H]

As Paul once said. We look at the same clip and see two different things-next stop, twilight zone.

[tom.guerry]

Some have the hands high,some don't, but all the good high level ones atrat to turn the front knee out when the bacl elbow starts down as a way on getting the upper/lower body timig of loading right. Thsi means that when they drop the elbow, the bat uncoks.

The rear leg does not strat turning until the hips turn it which happens after the front leg turns open.

this si not a "nice to have".

This is a requirement for the high level swing.

[RCSK]

Some pretty good swings

In my opinion, the swing is pretty good. I see the front front opening up. The rotation could be better. But, it's still pretty good swing. Now, if you look at A-rod swing (on the high pitch) that's pretty good hip rotation. To me I see no hand throwing. I see very good hip angles. To me it seems the elite MLB players know how to move there middle very well. No matter where the pitch is.

Sincerely,

RCSK

[jalbert]

THE REAR ELBOW SHOULD STAY AT THE TOP OF THE LOAD CYCLE UNTIL THE LEAD FOOT PLANTS TO MAX THE SHOULDER HIP CONNECTION ON ANY SWING.

Options:

1.) I am taking this statement way too literally
2.) Manny does not "max the shoulder hip connection" with this swing (from last summer) that hit this ball about 8,000 feet
3.) Above statement is false
4.) Above statement is true, but not necessary or evident in high level hitters

There are some guys who get the back elbow up relatively high. If, at footplant, the back elbow remained at the highest point it reached during the loading process, then there is just about NO WAY the hitter would get the barrel around to the all...

...Unless said hitter is Superman, can pause time, or you can cut one to two frames of video out of each of his swings.

I just don't see that happening

Anyways, it seems to me that the location of the rear elbow at footplant would have more to do with the connection of the bat/arms to the shoulders, rather than the connection between the hips and the shoulders.

And another question about what's going on at footplant - does the player want hip/shoulder connection or separation? I admittedly have not read all of your (Donny) posts, but it seems to me (again my impression based on devices such as the HBH) that you would be promoting separation at footplant rather than connection.

Again, just an impression from the outside looking in. If there is a need to clarify, please do.

And (sadly) I feel the need to put in a "disclaimer" as this in no way is intended as an "attack" - rather I'm stating what I "see" and asking for clarification of the statements you made

[jalbert]

Either my eyes don't work...

BECAUSE HE WOULD NOT LET THE BARREL GO OUT OF PLANE AND STAY OUT OF PLANE ( TO VERTICAL ) LONGER TO FOOT PLANT.

...or the bat here is coming vertically out of the swing plane




The intent of this post has nothing to do with what is or isn't right/wrong regarding swing mechanics

but what you said there is flat out wrong. maybe you worded it wrong or something - I don't know. But how can you say the bat is not coming up vertically (tip of bat pointing more towards the sky than where it began)?

My eyes see the bat pointing towards where the sidewall and ceiling meet and then pointing up towards the ceiling

and it isn't like the bat is starting in the swing plane (parallel to the shoulders) either. It starts a bit more vertical than parallel and keeps going (vertically)

[hiddengem]

I've figured out how to get video off some of my hitting DVD's. Here is a big homerun I hit in 01. I see some things I don't like, but I do get into the rotation pretty quickly here without much slide.

[hiddengem]

THE REAR ELBOW SHOULD STAY AT THE TOP OF THE LOAD CYCLE UNTIL THE LEAD FOOT PLANTS TO MAX THE SHOULDER HIP CONNECTION ON ANY SWING.

I don't believe any of us were referring to when the rear elbow should start down. Were we? We were talking about how the elbow and knob of the bat should be moving in sync.

[swingbuster]

Watch his bat slot go from the 45 slot then he does a little hand cocking BHUT and then swings. If he had his bat in the vertical slot BHUT locking his shoulders (scaps) back well into the stride and shift more weight as the plane transion took the bat back to the 45 slot ; it would have kept his hands back and last to the ball enhancing the whip effect. He would have gotten more front leg assist at wrist unhinge


HE COULD NOT KEEP THE REAR ELBOW BACK AND THE SCAPS LOADED BECAUSE HE WOULD NOT LET THE BARREL GO OUT OF PLANE AND STAY OUT OF PLANE ( TO VERTICAL ) LONGER TO FOOT PLANT.

Watch in this clip how Manny's elbow and hands start moving in sync. The elbow doesn't start down before the hands start going down

THE REAR ELBOW SHOULD STAY AT THE TOP OF THE LOAD CYCLE UNTIL THE LEAD FOOT PLANTS TO MAX THE SHOULDER HIP CONNECTION ON ANY SWING.

[hiddengem]

Gem

"No problem.. best of luck. The coaches always yelling "keep you back elbow up" are right, but probably don't know why. You should keep you elbow from coming down without the knob of the bat changing directions at the same time..if this happens, the folks on this sight refer to it as "slotting" your elbow too soon."

Can you expand on this a bit so I understand it better?

Watch in this clip how Manny's elbow and hands start moving in sync. The elbow doesn't start down before the hands start going down.




Now, Watch how this guy's elbow starts down a few frames early.

[Ohfor]

...or do you think he threw his hands through the center of that ball in a hopelessly BAD location

Please, everyone, focus on the bold print.

Yet, swing***** wants you to believe that is what you do on all pitches.

Not just the hopelessly BAD locations. (your words)

Why he swung at that pitch should be the topic of this conversation. Not how he got to it.

That pitch is way out of reach of any posture adjustment capability. So, he has to do more.

Swing****

Are we supposed to jump if it's any higher.....

Should we tomahawk it if higher yet....

How about a pitch in the dirt.....should we fall to our knees?.........or just take it.

You are embarassing.

[Stealth]

"Here is the full clip and it seems to me like alot of hand throwing,(top hand) but thats just my impression."

I see that as well - probably due to the pitch location being high.

[Stealth]

Gem

"No problem.. best of luck. The coaches always yelling "keep you back elbow up" are right, but probably don't know why. You should keep you elbow from coming down without the knob of the bat changing directions at the same time..if this happens, the folks on this sight refer to it as "slotting" your elbow too soon."

Can you expand on this a bit so I understand it better?

[hiddengem]

Here is the full clip and it seems to me like alot of hand throwing,(top hand) but thats just my impression.