Recent clip/ Post Steve E.

[bbjunkie]

First AB..Tall glass of water on the mound throwing pretty hard.
First pitch strike,
Second pitch Cutter away, check swing ball.
3rd pitch HR to left Center about 420. Fastball in about thigh high.

Sounds like a great AB. Congrats

Because thats what I'm trying to do. I want to start with my rear elbow down and as I load it can come up. What I don't want is to start with it high, and have it go higher as I load.

Do you feel that the back elbow coming up is at least partially a function of scap loading?

[tom.guerry]

GEM-

You should be able to look at your clip and Barry from the same angle and emulate what he does and see if it works.

Not that hard.Worth a try.Let me know some day if you do.

Caveat lector.

[ShawnB]

Just watching this in real time it looks like the arm and hands initiate the swing. It look like he initiates the swing with the arm and then the hips kick in.

[ShawnB]

I looked at the clip and do believe the arms are initiating the swing. There's a missing frame during the launch making it more difficult to tell.

Would love to see a side view to see the hips and hands relationship.

[Ohfor]

If you would have seen the before clip you'd realize a significant change has been made.

That being said, I'm curious what you see to come to that conclusion.

[ShawnB]

First off I just got the feeling while watching the clip that the hips didn't initiate his swing. I just felt like the arms started the swing and the hips came around second. But' there is a missing frame when the hips really begin to rotate.

In frame by frame analysis I do believe the back elbow begins to lower first and then the hips engage. I would need to see a side view to fully see the hands and hips relationship.

[Ohfor]

...In frame by frame analysis I do believe the back elbow begins to lower first and then the hips engage...

Does this mean the hips don't start the swing?

[fungo22]

First off I just got the feeling while watching the clip that the hips didn't initiate his swing. I just felt like the arms started the swing and the hips came around second. But' there is a missing frame when the hips really begin to rotate.

In frame by frame analysis I do believe the back elbow begins to lower first and then the hips engage. I would need to see a side view to fully see the hands and hips relationship.

I get the same feeling, and I see the same one or two frames in which the elbow moves down before hips fire. I can't see the front heel touch down, so it is hard to see what is going on in the front side. I think the problem is in the front leg. I don't think the front side (hip joint, inner thigh is "turning on" the rotation quickly enough, so there is 1 or 2 frames in which the hands are "filling" the time.

For David, this is a good thing, in my opinion, because it means that learning to contract these muscles more quickly will make his swing even quicker. My understanding is that he is working on this. His connection is much better (much less elbow slotting and knob direction is changing more quickly) and he is striding much more efficiently, carrying his middle forward with some ass-out tilt and coil ("forward by turning"). These two things alone has made his swing much more efficient and powerful. It is close to high-level, in my opinion.

I don't think it is accurate to say he is initiating his swing with his hands/arms. I think it is more accurate to say that he is not turning on his rotation as quickly as he might. But he has made significant improvement and it is showing up in his performance. It is amazing how quickly he has implemented the stuff he and Cletus have been working on. But he will get even better in my opinion.

[hiddengem]

I get the same feeling, and I see the same one or two frames in which the elbow moves down before hips fire. I can't see the front heel touch down, so it is hard to see what is going on in the front side. I think the problem is in the front leg. I don't think the front side (hip joint, inner thigh is "turning on" the rotation quickly enough, so there is 1 or 2 frames in which the hands are "filling" the time.

For David, this is a good thing, in my opinion, because it means that learning to contract these muscles more quickly will make his swing even quicker. My understanding is that he is working on this. His connection is much better (much less elbow slotting and knob direction is changing more quickly) and he is striding much more efficiently, carrying his middle forward with some ass-out tilt and coil ("forward by turning"). These two things alone has made his swing much more efficient and powerful. It is close to high-level, in my opinion.

I don't think it is accurate to say he is initiating his swing with his hands/arms. I think it is more accurate to say that he is not turning on his rotation as quickly as he might. But he has made significant improvement and it is showing up in his performance. It is amazing how quickly he has implemented the stuff he and Cletus have been working on. But he will get even better in my opinion.

This is true..the last piece of my puzzle is my front side. If I can get it ingrained in my muscle memory to stop sliding and start rotating quicker, I'll be close to where I want to be.

[hiddengem]

Can someone explain why the back elbow seems "to go up" as he gets in the launch position.

I am not sure if it's good or bad, just an observation. Seems to me that would put you in a tough position on a high fastball.

How about his elbow?

[hiddengem]

Gem: Congrats on good start (and getting to have the little Padre along)... I've got a BP question for you: What do you feel is the most beneficial type of BP??? Do you guys change it up much or do you stick with one pattern? If you could design BP (because that is what I do for my HS team) how would you do it...
Thanks and best!

Here is what we do in Camp right now, and I'm sure it will carry over to the season. Every Organization is different with their routine but this is ours right now.

4 Groups of 4 hitters.

Last hitter starts on first.

1st Round:

The hitter gets 2 bunts down, one to first one to third.
1 hit and run, (runner runs to second on the pitch)
1 Get him over (from second with zero outs, runner goes to 3rd)
1 Infield in with less that 2 outs.
1 Infield Back with less that 2 outs.
1 Squeeze Bunt (Runner on 3rd breaks at correct time)
7 swings, looking to drive the ball from gap to gap (focusing on getting a good pitch and not swinging at crap)

2nd Round:
5 Swings (Get a good pitch to hit and drive it)

3rd Round:
5 Swings(same as above)

4th Round:
5 swings(same as above)

5th Round:
3 swings(same as above)

6th Round:
Basehit and you get another swing up to 3 pitches.


Design your Groups so that your infielders are spread out a bit. You do this so that you can get each of them ground balls during the other rounds of BP. Have a Pitcher at first base catching balls from the fielders, and maybe a pitcher at 2nd doing the same, unless you have a couple infielders in a particular group.

Train, a few pitchers to learn how to swing a fungo and have them hit good grounders to the infielders so they can get their work in and not just mess around.

Thats how we do it, and its basically the same everywhere except for some minor changes to the first round of hitting.

[fungo22]

Thanks for the description of your hitting workout, HG. We did pretty much the same at both colleges (D2 and D3) where I coached except breviated versions because we didn't have as much time in each day to work all of that in. Pitchers hit infield fungos. Outfielders played the fly balls off the bats, which was better practice than just taking fly ball fungos.

Aside: The players at the second college I coached at gave me my name because I owned my own fungo (which was better than those owned by the team), and I carried it with me so those miserable wretches (the pitchers) wouldn't run off with it and have it when I needed it. When I first started at the second school, they called me "Coach Fungo" behind my back because they didn't know my name yet. The name stuck and they never called me by any other.

My main thing was hitting. I never get tired of saying it: I wish I knew then what I know now.

[Jake Patterson]

Hi Dave- First one?
I am at the point in my life where my youngest son, a player I coached through HS, went on to college and returned this year as an assitant coach. I thought I had a blast coaching him. Coaching with him is even more fun!

Do what ever you gotta do to enjoy him! He must have his mother's good looks!

[TrojanSkipper]

thanks gem

thanks HG. great info on your BP post...

[ShawnB]

Elbow starting

Does this mean the hips don't start the swing?

Not really, I have seen a few that lower their elbow and then keep the hands back. That is why I would like to see a side view.

Usually the hips and lowering start at the same time. I have a good clip of A-Rod from the back showing the hips starting and the elbow lowering while keeping the hands back.