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  • Hanson Principle

    In my opinion, this applies to every part of the game, not just swing and pitch mechanics. What do you guys think?

    THop

  • #2
    Yes.

    Some examples:

    I was watching some video of some MLB fielders a few years back in the context of range. What I noticed was that the MLB players with the most range weren't necessairly the fastest players around. Then, I noticed that those with the best range really had a way of creating better angles and so allowing themselves the ability to get to balls before the ball past a point of intersection.

    I went to a presentation once with regards to baserunning. One of the things that really changed how I coached stealing bases was video of the best. Most, if not all, didn't take a crossover step. Their first move was a jab step with their right foot. Take a look sometime at video of Henderson or Brock. You'll see it.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by THop View Post
      In my opinion, this applies to every part of the game, not just swing and pitch mechanics. What do you guys think?
      Absolutely.
      Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

      I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree. I'm more focused with that test on throwing and swinging since I view ingrained habits from youth as more difficult to overcome in those two areas as opposed to hitting the cut off, base running foot work, good angles on ground or fly balls, etc. True or no?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mark H View Post
          I agree. I'm more focused with that test on throwing and swinging since I view ingrained habits from youth as more difficult to overcome in those two areas as opposed to hitting the cut off, base running foot work, good angles on ground or fly balls, etc. True or no?
          I agree.

          You do have to scale things down a bit when it comes to cut-offs due to things like arm strength.

          However, I try to get kids doing things that are in the direction of the major league pattern where possible.
          Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

          I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

          Comment


          • #6
            What is the Hanson Principle and where can we learn more about it? This really interests me.
            www.thecompletepitcher.com

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            • #7
              Always compare anything anyone tells you to slow motion video of the best in the world. Let that be your truth detector. It's an imperfect test for reasons that would be a thread of their own but it's the best the average dad has for sorting out which disagreeing expert is preaching horse puckey.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Steven Ellis View Post
                What is the Hanson Principle and where can we learn more about it? This really interests me.
                Steven
                I wondered about this too and found the following:

                Always compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion clips of the best hitters in the world.

                I think that's what they're talking about and is consistent with the advice the gurus here give not just for hitting but pitching and all aspects baseball.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                  Always compare anything anyone tells you to slow motion video of the best in the world. Let that be your truth detector. It's an imperfect test for reasons that would be a thread of their own but it's the best the average dad has for sorting out which disagreeing expert is preaching horse puckey.
                  A slight modifier (perhaps O'leary's Context Corrollary to The Hanson Principle) is that you have to look at the BEST swings (or in this case actions) of the best players.

                  In other words, make sure you know the CONTEXT of the swing (or action) that you are looking at because even Pujols looks like crap every once in a while.

                  The problem is that you can come up with a lot of crazy ideas about hitting if you study a pitch in which Pujols was fooled by a change-up, swings all arm-y, and just pops up the ball.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mark H View Post
                    Always compare anything anyone tells you to slow motion video of the best in the world. Let that be your truth detector. It's an imperfect test for reasons that would be a thread of their own but it's the best the average dad has for sorting out which disagreeing expert is preaching horse puckey.
                    Nice!

                    It isn't a perfect tool, but it is a great tool.

                    There are a lot of old wise tales out there ... and there are a lot of individuals with good intentions ... but the idea is to avoid the 'bad' while taking in the 'good'. Instead of taking 3 steps forward and 2 steps back, this 'tool' assists in increasing the ratio in favor of steps forward.

                    I ask all my students to adopt the Hanson Principle. It not only keeps me honest, but I feel it protects them by filtering out bad information that they are certain to come into contact with throughout their travels.
                    Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 10-22-2008, 01:03 PM.

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                    • #11
                      For most things I'd say yes, but I think there are exceptions depending on the age and experience of the players. I see a lot of youth outfielders (pre-high school) that drift when catching fly balls rather than sprinting to a spot and getting behind the ball. I think the problem is they see the top outfielders in the majors do this. But they're able to judge the ball well enough that they can time the ball and catch it on the run. Not so for the kids. Another example would be the off balance throw by infielders. Most kids don't have the arm strength to make a strong accurate throw without squaring up and getting their feet set. (2B to 1B maybe.)

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                      • #12
                        OK guys, why is it that when I Google:

                        Mark Hanson
                        Marc Hanson
                        Mark Hanson Hitting
                        Hanson Principle
                        Hanson Philosophy

                        . . . or anything else to get a better understanding of who this guy is, his background in baseball or sports and his thesis/reasoning that drew him to the conclusion to author(?) the "principle" of teaching kids and comparing them to the professional hitter.

                        I would raise the question, "Do all youth athletes have the reflexes, focus, coordination, and physical capabilities/strength to emulate the MLB swing to the level of success of the MLB player proportionate to their age?"

                        I propose this due to the fact that I have had to move some hitters away from some aspects of the MLB swing in order to adjust to timing issues (primarily bat angle at launch) or other weaknesses to give the player a level of success he was not achieving with a more true MLB approach.

                        As the player matured, we slowly moved to a "better" bat angle or whatever was needed to move to the next level, but if a new father/coach relies strictly on the Hanson principle, he may be inadvertently limiting results for form, causing frustration and lack of interest in a player who may leave the game prematurely because of a "principle" rather then staying due to a pattern of success.

                        And yes, I know there are kids capable of close emulation of the MLB swing who can apply it in competition, but it's not these kids I'm talking about, so no need to tell me about your successful 7 or 8 y/o who is a hitting professor; I'm talking about the ones that can't apply it. Don't tell me you haven't seen the kid with a great "looking" swing that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was standing inside of it and those that looked terrible, but hit the ball all over the field. . . . those are the kids I'm talking about.

                        Just my thoughts and questions,
                        Mud
                        In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                          A slight modifier (perhaps O'leary's Context Corrollary to The Hanson Principle) is that you have to look at the BEST swings (or in this case actions) of the best players.

                          In other words, make sure you know the CONTEXT of the swing (or action) that you are looking at because even Pujols looks like crap every once in a while.

                          The problem is that you can come up with a lot of crazy ideas about hitting if you study a pitch in which Pujols was fooled by a change-up, swings all arm-y, and just pops up the ball.
                          True.




                          .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mudvnine View Post
                            OK guys, why is it that when I Google:

                            Mark Hanson
                            Marc Hanson
                            Mark Hanson Hitting
                            Hanson Principle
                            Hanson Philosophy

                            . . . or anything else to get a better understanding of who this guy is, his background in baseball or sports and his thesis/reasoning that drew him to the conclusion to author(?) the "principle" of teaching kids and comparing them to the professional hitter.

                            I would raise the question, "Do all youth athletes have the reflexes, focus, coordination, and physical capabilities/strength to emulate the MLB swing to the level of success of the MLB player proportionate to their age?"

                            I propose this due to the fact that I have had to move some hitters away from some aspects of the MLB swing in order to adjust to timing issues (primarily bat angle at launch) or other weaknesses to give the player a level of success he was not achieving with a more true MLB approach.

                            As the player matured, we slowly moved to a "better" bat angle or whatever was needed to move to the next level, but if a new father/coach relies strictly on the Hanson principle, he may be inadvertently limiting results for form, causing frustration and lack of interest in a player who may leave the game prematurely because of a "principle" rather then staying due to a pattern of success.

                            And yes, I know there are kids capable of close emulation of the MLB swing who can apply it in competition, but it's not these kids I'm talking about, so no need to tell me about your successful 7 or 8 y/o who is a hitting professor; I'm talking about the ones that can't apply it. Don't tell me you haven't seen the kid with a great "looking" swing that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was standing inside of it and those that looked terrible, but hit the ball all over the field. . . . those are the kids I'm talking about.

                            Just my thoughts and questions,
                            Mud
                            Well I guess that depends on what your conclusions are when watching the video. I fully agree with keeping complexity out of the swing of a kid who can't handle it but there are pros with stride and some without-some with complex arm action and or hitches and some without etc. What are the things they ALL do? What do you HAVE to do to be efficient and quick? When I say watch the pros, I'm not saying you have to drop and raise your hands like Bonds or hold them over your head like Counsel. I'm saying if someone says you need to do something in particular such as, for instance, squish the bug, the average dad can look at the pros and say "Uh, no, I don't see any bug squishin' goin' on here" and save his kid a bunch of grief.

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                            • #15
                              MarkH, I'm thinking not all people are putting 1+1 = MarkH

                              I've tried, unsuccessfully to push for the "Butler Principle" but fame and fortune are not in the cards for me. ie, when discussing hitting mechanics in a hitting discussion compare video that demonstrates pitches in the same location at the same speed and of the same kind of pitch.

                              Of course, there's a reason why I just can't reach that summit. MarkH, you have the floor!

                              Comment

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