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Hitting PCR vs Hands, Wrists, Top Hand, Bottom Hand, Hips First, ETC

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  • Ursa Major
    replied
    Given strident nature of the personalities here, one really has to take a machete through the vitriol (to mix metaphors) to get to the core concepts and see if there's value to them. Having spent a lot of time on Hitting-mechanics.org, I certainly was used to doing that in order to benefit from the nuggets that Nyman offered. But, it's all in filtering the information for its own value, looking at least to internal consistency in what's being taught. Swingbuster may have the answers, but I'll be danged if I can understand it. On the other hand, Ohfor may be a jerk about a third of the time, and I'll ignore those posts, but for those other times he's got stuff to say and a kid who's benefitted from his instruction, so I'd be a fool to ignore him completely.

    But, I always have to bring teaching philosophies and systems down to the very specific issue I have to deal with. For my own 11 y/o son, who I can instruct every day (but who won't listen to me much about hitting or anything else), I can try to have a comprehensive hitting scheme. But for kids who land at my feet three weeks before the season starts and who may have only a modest interest in baseball anyway, you've got to make compromises. They're not going to work on the seven parts of their swing that need work, so maybe you can pick out two things they can practice so at least they'll have a decent season. It may be a wierd cue but one you know that will resonate with that one kid. I -- and most dads -- don't get to work with the kids who are looking at college ball and trying to refine an already good swing; I get kids who are chopping wood or who are stepping waaaay into the bucket and the like.

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  • ssarge
    replied
    I do sympathize with ANYONE who produces an instructional video, then later comes to better understand the subject, and needs to revise. Can't put the Genie back in the bottle. But it seems to me the best approach would be to flat out say, "Hey, I understand this differently or better than I did before. I didn;t quite have it when I said this."

    That would be hard, but appropriate.

    When Candrea says (on RVP), "I've always felt the baseball and softball swings were very similar," I have to do a doubletake. There seems to be ample evidence in his previous video that this was not the case. As Mark says, it's good that he is headed in that direction now.

    Regards,

    Scott
    Last edited by ssarge; 03-27-2006, 09:47 PM.

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  • ssarge
    replied
    No doubt, but at the same time, softball has been "very very good to them" to borrow a line from what was it, SNL?
    Yes. Garrett Morris as Dominican baseball player Chico Escuela.

    Regards,

    Scott
    Last edited by ssarge; 03-27-2006, 09:42 PM.

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  • Mark H
    replied
    Originally posted by Slapper23
    Mark, you're right, I just went about it a little too disrespectfully...no excuse for it. I consider your remark about C and E a compliment.
    Some might call it arrogantly [email protected]#$%^& them with faint praise. Bottom line has to be what each of us see in video.



    Originally posted by Slapper23
    I would also say they have done more for the sport in terms of promotion than I could ever do. They bring a lot of attention to the game and thereby help increase it's popularity, IMO.


    Mike
    No doubt, but at the same time, softball has been "very very good to them" to borrow a line from what was it, SNL? At the end of the day, I'm just tickled Slaught got them on video saying the MLB swing is essentially the same as the fp swing. Now if we could just get Slaught past understanding form as opposed to function we'd all be on our way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slapper23
    replied
    Mark, you're right, I just went about it a little too disrespectfully...no excuse for it. I consider your remark about C and E a compliment. I would also say they have done more for the sport in terms of promotion than I could ever do. They bring a lot of attention to the game and thereby help increase it's popularity, IMO.

    With my kids, the only mention of C and E in my teaching of hitting is to use Candrea's statement that "the fastpitch swing is the MLB swing." So, I use their good name to give credibility to my contention to the kids that the MLB swing is the way to go. I also tend to use Mike Lotief's name and his teaching of the swing to D1 kids very often to my kids.

    But, yes, I certainly agree you can tell the truth in a number of ways and do so respectfully.

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark H
    replied
    Originally posted by Slapper23
    I don't like to dis anyone who's trying to help kids. I made the mistake of dissing Candrea and Enquist's Rightview Pro material on Shawn's site a month or two ago, and quickly apologized, and later deleted my entire post. Because as a friend told me, they (Candrea/Enquist) are trying to help kids and they do a lot for our sport. My friend was right. I was so caught up in my own ego and all-knowing self (you know, I'm a Setpro guy!) in terms of hitting, I bashed some fine people.

    Bottomline - I felt terrible about it and again, as my friend reminded me, Candrea/Enquist do a lot of good and a lot of promotion for our sport, AND they are on their own part of the learning curve or learning journey. Thanks God for friends.

    Mike
    Regardless of their personal merits you are obligated to the kids coming up in this sport to tell the truth as you see it IMO. Good news is, C&E are a LOT closer to MLB mechanics than they used to be. Is that a compliment or an insult? You can tell the truth any number of ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slapper23
    replied
    MSSandman,

    Sometimes I can get a bit chatty, but thank you. People do form their own opinions on things and I'm no different. Actually, I think this is a great site. Steve E. initially mentioned this site to me and it offers a lot of expertise. I'm usually a quasi-lurker and I read and read, and try to learn more. I hope Steve, Tom, Donny, Mark, and all the others continue to post on here...lots to learn. And hey, you even have a site for St. Louis Cardinal fans!

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Slapper23
    replied
    Richard, to tell you the truth, I hold no ill will toward you, and I hope your son keeps improving. I didn't comment, but those were some pretty good swings you posted of him. It's also great you are putting in the time and effort to work with your son...great stuff.

    I look at lots of clips posted on this site and others. I try to understand what's happening in the swings based on what I know. The same goes with my HS kids, granddaughters, and their 10U teammates I coach. One thing I hope to obtain is a digitial video camera. I plan on purchasing one with a fundraiser our HS team is conducting in May. Once I get one, I will tape the kids' swings and hopefully help improve their swings even more so. When I have a camera, I may post some on here for commentary and feedback, we'll see.

    I don't like to dis anyone who's trying to help kids. I made the mistake of dissing Candrea and Enquist's Rightview Pro material on Shawn's site a month or two ago, and quickly apologized, and later deleted my entire post. Because as a friend told me, they (Candrea/Enquist) are trying to help kids and they do a lot for our sport. My friend was right. I was so caught up in my own ego and all-knowing self (you know, I'm a Setpro guy!) in terms of hitting, I bashed some fine people.

    Bottomline - I felt terrible about it and again, as my friend reminded me, Candrea/Enquist do a lot of good and a lot of promotion for our sport, AND they are on their own part of the learning curve or learning journey. Thanks God for friends.

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • MSandman
    replied
    Originally posted by Slapper23
    I would amend Ohfor's statement to say, "no one learns anything until they dig and dig, and dig some more in learning about this hitting stuff." Debate is good, I just don't know how passionate it has to be. Most of the so called "passionate" debate I see is about as immature you're going to see adults act. Some people join up with a school of thought and become rabid zealots in defense of it.

    I really think the "proof" thing is very overstated. Video is no sure fire proof because two people can look at the same video and see different things, and end up not in agreement. People like Steve can be very helpful and offers the best, I think, teaching material around. But in all due respect, even Steve doesn't have all the answers. Keep an open mind and decide for yourself, IMO.

    Mike
    Mike,

    That's a very courteous, but dead-on, summary of this site.

    Leave a comment:


  • tom.guerry
    replied
    Steve E-

    With friends like that,who needs enemies ?

    Well said Slapper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ohfor
    replied
    Originally posted by swingbuster

    Linear, teacherman, infopimp, Ohfer....talking about a few names....
    But I never tried to fake like I was someone else while trying to sell my LOAD TODAY, UNLOAD TOMORROW devise (HBH) in cognito.
    Last edited by Ohfor; 03-27-2006, 05:07 PM.

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  • Ohfor
    replied
    Originally posted by Ohfor
    One thing I can't recall ever doing, is going onto a web site with a "new name", a name like "Bat Buster", (something that no one would suspect was the same person as "Swingbuster") and saying something in an anonymous attempt like..........."hey, have you guys ever heard of the HBH. It looks pretty good to me" you ought to look into one."

    Right Swingbuster?
    Did you miss this or just hope it goes away?

    Leave a comment:


  • swingbuster
    replied
    Hey Sam Walton,

    Heard of Google Adwords....why don't you pay for it like the rest of the world instead is hijacking someone elses website and turning it into a setpro clone.

    Linear, teacherman, infopimp, Ohfer....talking about a few names....are your 4x4, Fungo too.... can't be ..they have an occassional original thought.

    I've been asked to "tone it down" several times by Steve and other members of the posse.
    I figured you were a clone gone bad that they couldn't deactivate.

    Stop saying stupid stuff and you probably won't here from me
    .

    I will stop telling people how to hit HRs when your past people tell me they can get the barrel out there .....they are not all having success BUD
    Last edited by swingbuster; 03-27-2006, 04:55 PM.

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  • Ohfor
    replied
    Originally posted by swingbuster
    and he is Head of Marketing
    First....

    Lets set the record staight.

    I've offer to be his shipping conglomerate. Nothing to do with marketing.

    I've offered to do that so he can be "in the field".

    I've offer to do it for no pay, just to help get the information out there.

    And, I can fully understand if they don't want me to do it. No problem.

    Second...

    I've been asked to "tone it down" several times by Steve and other members of the posse.

    So, don't paint them with the broad brush that you'd like to use on me.

    I'm a renegade through and through.

    Stop saying stupid stuff and you probably won't here from me.
    Last edited by Ohfor; 03-27-2006, 05:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ohfor
    replied
    One thing I can't recall ever doing, is going onto a web site with a "new name", a name like "Bat Buster", (something that no one would suspect was the same person as "Swingbuster") and saying something in an anonymous attempt like..........."hey, have you guys ever heard of the HBH. It looks pretty good to me" you ought to look into one."

    Right Swingbuster?
    Last edited by Ohfor; 03-27-2006, 04:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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