Dr. Marshall's Video Available

[hplant25]

The photo of Adam Ottavino looks to me like a curveball with palm toward third base.

I dont Know, looks like a slider to me with the wrist hooked in.

[Jake Patterson]

I gave the positives of Mills program. It will likely produce an effective pitcher quickly. This is a legitimate goal. Most never play past the 12U year of LL. Mills program should make this kid's youth career successful. Nothing wrong with that. Careful of reading too much into tone. OTOH, if I don't say what I see as the negatives of his choice and it turns out the kid wanted to achieve his potential, then I share fault in that. If dad wants to question further he can ask. He has apparently done the research he intends to do and made his choice. Depending on his goals, it may be an excellent choice.

In this light - I may have read too much into what you are saying.

[Mark H]

Mark, why not offer advice? It's Wringle's first post. Why make his first experience here negative?

Wringle, Mills is a good place to start.



.

I gave the positives of Mills program. It will likely produce an effective pitcher quickly. This is a legitimate goal. Most never play past the 12U year of LL. Mills program should make this kid's youth career successful. Nothing wrong with that. Careful of reading too much into tone. OTOH, if I don't say what I see as the negatives of his choice and it turns out the kid wanted to achieve his potential, then I share fault in that. If dad wants to question further he can ask. He has apparently done the research he intends to do and made his choice. Depending on his goals, it may be an excellent choice.

[Jake Patterson]

Good call if you don't have aspirations to reach his genetic potential. He will likely throw strikes quickly and have an excellent youth career.

Mark, why not offer advice? It's Wringle's first post. Why make his first experience here negative?

Wringle, Mills is a good place to start.

I think that if you train as hard as them and require them to work hard so should you. You can see if you are doing to much. based upon my aging body i should breakdown first, that way I can make sure my son does not.

Having gone through this with my now adult sons, and having coached for twenty years I would offer a word of caution. You should not have any eight y/o in a training program that would wear an adult out. Take it easy and let your son determine the amount of time he wants to put into learning how to pitch.

Learning together on the other hand is a great way for your son to learn as long as you realize it's temporay at best. You will have to turn him over to others at some point.

[Mark H]

I have read many articles and discussions and have decided on the Dick Mills program for my kid 8 year old.

Good call if you don't have aspirations to reach his genetic potential. He will likely throw strikes quickly and have an excellent youth career.

[Mark H]

The photo of Adam Ottavino looks to me like a curveball with palm toward third base.

Again illustrating the absurdity of using stills for analysis or proof. Good catch.

[Baseball gLove]

....I That's why the only thing I tell my guys is "Focus on the glove and let it rip".

You're copying me.

[Chris O'Leary]

But I think the idea of learning the mechanics yourself so that you understand the techniques and are able to model them is a solid idea!

I follow this approach myself.

Even though in my case it just means throwing BP, it is still important to keep things simple and to focus on the target. I also pitch for my slow pitch softball team and find that the same lessons apply.

In fact, living it gives me tremendous respect for my pitchers. I know how hard hard it is for me to recover from an error behind me or a case of the yips, and it amazes me how mentally tough my kids can be.

It also makes me realize how useless (or worse) yelled-out comments like "Just throw strikes" are.

What do you think I'm trying to do?!?

That's why the only thing I tell my guys is "Focus on the glove and let it rip".

[Maxx]

Sorry to contradict you Deezeldogg.

Hey no problem! I think Baseball Love and Chris make very good points--points that I never really considered since I've never coached athletes that young. But I think the idea of learning the mechanics yourself so that you understand the techniques and are able to model them is a solid idea! This was the main point that I was agreeing on with wringle. Thanks for the input guys......

[Chris O'Leary]

Wringle: I am sorry but your logic is flawed. Kids have open growth plates at their joints. Your soreness can be attributed to lack of throwing or poor mechanics.

Great point.

Kids, and by that I mean people who are younger than 16 or 17 biological years old, and adults experience different problems because they have different bodies.

I would restrict your son's pitching to no more than one inning or 25 pitches per game, no more than 2 games a week, until he is 10. Go two innings at 10 & 11 keeping his pitch count around 30 - 40. No curve balls until he is 14 and then very few of those and no sliders until you are certain he is not growing any more.

This is exactly how I handle my 11 year-old son as well as the other pitchers I coach.

All of my guys are still good pitchers (one team went 8-4 and the other team went 7-4-1) and none of my guys have ever complained of pain, much less had an injury.

[Baseball gLove]

I have read many articles and discussions and have decided on the Dick Mills program for my kid 8 year old.

I also will follow the program. I am not a pitcher so I have to learn from the start like my son. So i can see how well the program does.

I also think all fathers if they can should throw like thier sons. I think that if you train as hard as them and require them to work hard so should you. You can see if you are doing to much. based upon my aging body i should breakdown first, that way I can make sure my son does not.

We can add gobs of reasons on how this could be wrong based on mechanics etc.. but its the only way i can figure out if he is getting close to working to hard. I also think that you can try a few of the "I wonder" ideas on yourself and not your kid. I think it is better to experiment on myself then the boy.

The results so far is I get more sore then my kid and when I am sore I make him throw less or skip a day or two while i recover. This has lead him to have 0 problems so far. The only worry would be is i am being to worried but it is early and we are still working on getting 70% fastball strikes ..

Early stages of pitching so my ideas may be out of wack...

Sorry to contradict you Deezeldogg.

Wringle: I am sorry but your logic is flawed. Kids have open growth plates at their joints. Your soreness can be attributed to lack of throwing or poor mechanics. I throw about 400-600 pitches a week including fastballs, sliders, curves and knuckles and the only soreness I get is in my Vastus Medialis aka the quadriceps muscle that runs up the inside of my thigh. You need to be more careful with your son than you are with yourself.

I would restrict your son's pitching to no more than one inning or 25 pitches per game, no more than 2 games a week, until he is 10. Go two innings at 10 & 11 keeping his pitch count around 30 - 40. No curve balls until he is 14 and then very few of those and no sliders until you are certain he is not growing any more.

[Maxx]

wringle, sounds like a good philosophy to me. I throw with my team almost everyday, i try all the hitting drills myself to make sure i can do what i am teaching, and i try to get involved in all the defensive drills whenever possible. I figure if the players can see me doing the drill correctly and working hard to make myself better even though I'm beyond playing anything except slow pitch softball, that will make them work a bit harder and they'll have a visual of what it SHOULD look like.

[wringle]

Worried about injury

I have read many articles and discussions and have decided on the Dick Mills program for my kid 8 year old.

I also will follow the program. I am not a pitcher so I have to learn from the start like my son. So i can see how well the program does.

I also think all fathers if they can should throw like thier sons. I think that if you train as hard as them and require them to work hard so should you. You can see if you are doing to much. based upon my aging body i should breakdown first, that way I can make sure my son does not.

We can add gobs of reasons on how this could be wrong based on mechanics etc.. but its the only way i can figure out if he is getting close to working to hard. I also think that you can try a few of the "I wonder" ideas on yourself and not your kid. I think it is better to experiment on myself then the boy.

The results so far is I get more sore then my kid and when I am sore I make him throw less or skip a day or two while i recover. This has lead him to have 0 problems so far. The only worry would be is i am being to worried but it is early and we are still working on getting 70% fastball strikes ..

Early stages of pitching so my ideas may be out of wack...

[Maxx]

The photo of Adam Ottavino looks to me like a curveball with palm toward third base.

[jojab]

Based on looking at high speed film, I do not believe that (when you are talking about a high level throw) the muscles of the arm contribute very much to velocity.

He didn't say muscles of the arm...he said arm action, meaning what the arms actually do. That is the point Jimmiemac was getting at as well. His point being that you can have the greatest lower body action in the world but if you don't link it up correctly through effective arm action it won't matter.

That is why some suggest that when teaching the throwing mechanics, you start first with good arm-action. Just like you agree that you have to learn to throw before you pitch, some would say that you have to know how to properly use your arms before you can throw. I'm not really sure you disagree with this.