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  • Outman mechanics video

    Thought some of you pitching guys might be interested.

    http://eteamz.active.com/baseball/bo...cfm?id=1557452

  • #2
    I think it would be fun to steal a base running backwards on this guy. If he has any hopes of playing/suceeding at a higher level, he'd better change quick. If anybody gets on first, might as well tell them to run over to 3rd.
    Last edited by hiddengem; 04-05-2006, 10:54 AM.

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    • #3
      ROFLM MF AO again.

      I just can't help it.

      Is this a quack taught pitcher?

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      • #4
        He's completely out of position to handle a come backer. On one of his pitches, he even fell down. Plus it looks like he is putting tremendous stress on his elbow. I can't imagine he would go far with that kind of throw. Where the heck would someone learn something like that?

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        • #5
          Details About Zach Outman

          I shot the video, and I'll give some more details.

          I first came across Zach Outman when I learned about his brother Josh, a LHP prospect in the Phillies organization.

          The mechanics that Zach uses (and that Josh used in HS and college) were developed by their father Fritz. He has spent 15 or so years researching the biomechanics of pitching. He has no connection to Dr. Mike Marshall, but I find it interesting in that he has come to some of the same conclusions (e.g. vertical movement of the ball is good and take a shorter stride so that the hips are free to rotate).

          I think Fritz has some interesting ideas, which is why I have been following the progress of his boys, but I do have concerns about things like the strain that is put on the elbow (although it's not much different than what traditional pitchers experience). I also don't like his finishing position.

          As far as baserunning goes, you're wrong. He has a good, quick move to both 1B and the plate. He also changes the arm slot he throws from in order to mix up the runner. In the game I watched he held a runner at 1B and ended up getting both him and the batter out on a DP to 2B. He then got a K on the hitter to end the inning.
          Last edited by Chris O'Leary; 04-05-2006, 12:01 PM.
          Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

          I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Chris O'Leary

            The mechanics that Zach uses (and that Josh used in HS and college) were developed by their father Fritz.
            If this is so good, why did he change when he got to pro ball?

            As far as baserunning goes, you're wrong.

            I don't have a stopwatch on me. Can anybody get his time for me? From his first movement to the time the ball hits the catchers glove.

            Nolan Ryan would throw up looking at this.
            Last edited by hiddengem; 04-05-2006, 12:32 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hiddengem
              If this is so good, why did he change when he got to pro ball?
              He was forced to change by the organization.


              Originally posted by hiddengem
              I don't have a stopwatch on me. Can anybody get his time for me? From his first movement to the time the ball hits the catchers glove. Nolan Ryan would throw up looking at this.
              You may be right, but the runner I saw wasn't able to take advantage of anything. When he throws from a conventional arm slot he's quite fast given the slide step.

              Just thought of something.

              In the front view clips (with a runner on 1B), he first threw from a conventional arm slot and then threw from his Outman arm slot. Given that he changes things up, and had a good move from a traditional arm slot, runners might not be able to take advantage of him because the guys I know are trained to look at the heels (and/or the knees) when deciding whether to steal or not. Well, if you're so focused on the heels (or knees), then it's hard to also tell which arm slot he's going to use.

              He can also throw to 1B from his Outman arm slot.

              What's more, the extra time he takes to wrap his arm around his head doesn't matter because his heels don't move up to that point (it's as if he comes to a second set position with his arm wrapped around his head). Instead, what matters is his time to the plate from the moment his front heel lifts (or front knee cracks), and that is a small number given that he uses a slide step.
              Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

              I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chris O'Leary
                He was forced to change by the organization.
                Why on earth would they do that?



                You may be right, but the runner I saw wasn't able to take advantage of anything.
                So which one is it? "You may be right" or "As far as baserunning, you are wrong."


                Just get me his times. And then we'll preceed with the baserunning discussion. I could care less what a high school kid does with this guy. I'll let you know what would happen at my level.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hiddengem
                  Just get me his times. And then we'll preceed with the baserunning discussion. I could care less what a high school kid does with this guy. I'll let you know what would happen at my level.
                  The file says the video is 30 FPS. In the 3rd clip, I count 29 frames, or 1 second, from knee crack to release point. That puts the ball in the catcher's mitt in roughly 1.5 seconds.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chris O'Leary
                    The file says the video is 30 FPS. In the 3rd clip, I count 29 frames, or 1 second, from knee crack to release point. That puts the ball in the catcher's mitt in roughly 1.5 seconds.

                    I got a clock on him. He's about 1.3-1.4 seconds with his normal delivery and about 1.9-2.0 on his funky, over the head delivery.


                    While leading off on first I can get to second in about 3.4 seconds, so if a pitcher throws a 1.4 or above the catcher has to throw a 2.0 or below on the dot to get me. Most good pitchers at my level that hold runners well, can deliver to the plate in about 1.2 or so.

                    This kid might as well can the funky arm thing.

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                    • #11
                      Chris O said: What's more, the extra time he takes to wrap his arm around his head doesn't matter because his heels don't move up to that point (it's as if he comes to a second set position with his arm wrapped around his head). Instead, what matters is his time to the plate from the moment his front heel lifts (or front knee cracks), and that is a small number given that he uses a slide step.
                      Uh, my first reaction when he did the "outman thing" from the stretch was that that second stop behind his shoulder was a balk. He been called on that?

                      Speaking of Marshall, you heard anything from Coach45 about his son, who's been studying with the doc?
                      Last edited by Ursa Major; 04-06-2006, 11:15 PM.
                      sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

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                      • #12
                        What kind of velocity does this kid have?

                        Jason

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                        • #13
                          Who is this guy playing for? I wouldn't even let him throw in little league with mechanics like that.

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                          • #14
                            Both he and his brother have been very effective. Recollection is his brother reportedly threw 90? As HG pointed out, how quick is he to home. As I said on the linked thread, it's just a traditional arm action preceded by a strange way of getting to a heck'uva scap load. I see no reason why he can't throw hard this way. I see no reason to throw this way. I see reasons, as articulated by HG to NOT throw this way. Since he knows the motion, maybe pull it out of the hat occassionally to mess with a hitter's mind assuming no base stealing threats on base. Beats the heck out of Mike Marshall's reinventing of the pitching motion. Still doesn't trump what MLB hitters are doing.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mark H
                              Recollection is his brother reportedly threw 90?
                              Josh is consistently in the 90s and has hit 97.
                              Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                              I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                              Comment

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