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Rating the BBCOR bats

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  • Rating the BBCOR bats

    My son got a chance to swing a handful of BBCOR bats over the last couple of weeks. These are the bats he swung and in the order he rated them 1) Easton surge, 2) Easton Rival, 3) Demarini Voodoo 4) Tpx Omaha 5) Rawlings 5150. The top 3 bats did not thicken the walls to make their bats BBCOR compliant the other 2 did.

    Let me start with that compared to the BESR bats well it"s going to be a different game this year. The consensus was that everyone would rather swing the BESR bats. I'm still not sure what the CIF is going to decide next month. It will be interesting to see if the Bat Companies will be able to get enough bats out for all levels of college baseball plus the 40,000 plus H.S players in CA.

    Easton Surge- By Far he thought this was the best BBCOR bat He said it swung and felt like BESR surge no vibration at all. Ball jumped off the bat, this is the one to get if you can.

    Easton Rival- Very balanced no Vibration. Ball jumped off the bat

    Demarini Voodoo- Balanced and very little Vibration the ball didn't seem to jump off of this bat. No one else liked this bat as much as he did.

    Tpx Omaha- Seemed end loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus more Vibration if you didn't hit it exactly on the sweet spot.

    Rawlings 5150- End loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus vibration no matter where the you hit it on the bat.

    Its going to be all individual preference on whether you like a 1 or 2 piece bat or which brand you like or how much you can afford. No one there had the Anderson or the Nike BBCOR.
    Last edited by HOOAH; 12-20-2010, 06:49 PM. Reason: correction of players in state
    "Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who'll fight."
    Author: General James Gavin

  • #2
    Thanks of the testing and update, but I have a couple questions for ya . . .

    1. You said that, "it"s going to be a different game this year", but than you went on to say that the, "Ball jumped off the bat" which sounds a bit contradictory, so can you explain a little bit more on those two thoughts?

    2. How do any of these bats compare to wood as far as performance?

    The reason I ask is that several of the kids I work with, that have used some of the new BBCOR bats in the fall (although I don't know which ones they swung), said they were "dogs", and that they were going to use wood this year.

    Thoughts . . . comparisons?
    In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

    Comment


    • #3
      Your right let me rephrase that "Ball jumped off the bat" he was comparing them to the other BBCOR bats. He went in there with a open mind like the BESR bats never existed. All the BBCOR bats are dogs compared to the BESR bats. If they go up to bat expecting the same performance as the BESR bats then they will be very disappointed.

      The Easton bats just came out where as I think they gave themselves more time to tweak them. He didn't like the vibration from the Omaha or the 5150. They will all perform better than wood except probably the Rawlings. As for the game will be different for the most part the long ball will be gone unless they play on a field where the fences are closer.

      The kids you worked with probably used the one of the other three bats. If I remember right the Voodoo came out for sale 1st followed by the Omaha .
      Last edited by HOOAH; 12-20-2010, 12:30 PM.
      "Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who'll fight."
      Author: General James Gavin

      Comment


      • #4
        HOOAH,

        I’m not sure if you’re saying this is a good thing or a bad one.

        I don’t know if you were around when BESR came about, but the same kind of things were being said. Yup. BESR bats were thought by many then to be some kind of Kommie plot to ruin the blossoming baseball careers of many young power hitters. In fact, I remember two boys on my son’s Fr team who started the season with wood, because they were so sure wood was superior.

        My personal thoughts about all the whoopla, are that its all just that. whoopla. Everyone can whine, complain, or cry all they want, but the fact remains that even in Ca if they aren’t required this season, like the rest of the country, they’ll be required next. And, if by some quirk of the cosmos a player dodges the problem in HS, he’s still gonna have to face it in college.

        In the end though, the games will still be played because the games are always played. The sad thing is though, the players will easily adapt, the coaches will eventually adapt, but the parents will always see this as the reason their kid never got that D1 ‘ship or signed that contract.

        I think most SERIOUS players will do what your boy did, and give them all a “test ride”. Then I think the next batch of BBCORs will be “adjusted” to make them as acceptable to the consumer as possible. There may be a few players that opt for wood, and that’s wonderful, but I doubt there’ll be as many as people believe.

        I’m looking forward to the whole thing, especially comparing Ca’s numbers against the rest of the country’s, because I want to see if there’s really a huge drop-off in performance. I’m suspecting a significant drop in HRs, but not nearly as much in anything else. I'm already planning for comparisons of pre-BBCOR to post-BBCOR stats.

        But that’s the fun of it all! The anticipation of what’s going to happen is what keeps me goin’ to the park.
        The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Guys, just to be clear, they are required in CA this coming season (2011) . . . unless someone's is reading this and interpreting it different than I am or as I've also been told.

          CIF Baseball Bat Implementation

          Basic summary from the site . . .
          9. Q: What exactly do you mean by “available statewide”?

          A: Schools and individuals will have the same opportunity to purchase aluminum bats from their normal sources, regardless of where they live. As the year progresses, CIF will monitor the availability of these bats. Availability updates will be posted on the CIF Web site.

          UPDATE: We've been told aluminum bats will be commercially available statewide on or before January 1, 2011.

          10. Q: Will this same exception be allowed for composite bats?
          A: No. Composite bats must meet the new BBCOR performance standards this school year, 2010-11 unless the bat is listed on the waiver/modification list.

          11. Q: Are there different standards that must be met for aluminum bats?

          A: The requirements are the same as those required for composite bats.
          In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
            I don’t know if you were around when BESR came about, but the same kind of things were being said. Yup. BESR bats were thought by many then to be some kind of Kommie plot to ruin the blossoming baseball careers of many young power hitters. In fact, I remember two boys on my son’s Fr team who started the season with wood, because they were so sure wood was superior.
            Here's a quote from ten years ago, when NFHS was considering getting rid of minus-5s and mandating minus-3s.

            "In high school, there will be about three guys per team who have the ability to swing minus-3 bats," said Sass. "If you take the diameter down and affect the weight, it is going to affect high school baseball dramatically."

            A sub-heading asked, "Do New [BESR] Bats Ruin the Game?"

            http://www.fogdog.com/fog-new-regula...bg-412020.html

            Obviously, minus-3 BESR bats didn't ruin HS baseball.
            That being said, in my opinion BBCOR bats will dramatically alter HS baseball. I'll like it. Not sure the players will--at least until a couple of years have passed so that BESR rocket launchers become a dim memory.
            Last edited by skipper5; 12-20-2010, 11:05 AM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
              Here's a quote from ten years ago, when NFHS was considering getting rid of minus-5s and mandating minus-3s.

              "In high school, there will be about three guys per team who have the ability to swing minus-3 bats," said Sass. "If you take the diameter down and affect the weight, it is going to affect high school baseball dramatically."

              A sub-heading asked, "Do New [BESR] Bats Ruin the Game?"

              http://www.fogdog.com/fog-new-regula...bg-412020.html

              Obviously, minus-3 BESR bats didn't ruin HS baseball.
              That being said, in my opinion BBCOR bats will dramatically alter HS baseball. I'll like it. Not sure the players will--at least until a couple of years have passed so that BESR rocket launchers become a dim memory.
              Its always the same type of thing whenever there’s any kind of change. All the pundits and experts make all kinds of predictions of doom and gloom, but “Ol’ man river, just keeps rollin’ along.”

              I too am thinking I’ll be likin’ this particular change, but I truly don’t believe its going to be the kind of overall changes many people believe. I suspect the biggest change will be in the gross number of HRs, not necessarily in the number of runs scored, but I’m sure lookin’ forward to finding out.
              The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                I suspect the biggest change will be in the gross number of HRs, not necessarily in the number of runs scored, but I’m sure lookin’ forward to finding out.
                If BBCOR bats are truly woodlike, then everything I've seen from summer woodbat indicates that there will be a noticeable reduction in runs scored.
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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=mudvnine;1828425]Guys, just to be clear, they are required in CA this coming season (2011) . . . unless someone's is reading this and interpreting it different than I am or as I've also been told.

                  Mud
                  I still don't see how there will be enough bats. Sports Authority in Ca. are blowing smoke up the CIF's well you get the Idea. It will just be a wait and see till sometime in Jan.
                  "Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who'll fight."
                  Author: General James Gavin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    From what I've heard/read, the BBCOR bats are basically more durable wood bats. I predict that the BBCOR bats will eliminate "linear" hitting and force a general change to better (high-level) mechanics. However, other people thought that -3 bats would force a change to higher level mechanics. As a result, I don't think anything will really change. There will be fewer home runs, and the game will based more on bat control (kind of like a Dead-Ball Era with aluminum). I believe that my state, Virginia, is implementing the BBCOR standard this year. Is this only for composites or both composites and aluminum in Virginia?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
                      If BBCOR bats are truly woodlike, then everything I've seen from summer woodbat indicates that there will be a noticeable reduction in runs scored.
                      I’m not at all saying that there won’t be a reduction in runs or even a “noticeable” one, whatever that is. Its just that I’ve spent so much time rootin’ around in HS numbers, I know how difficult it is to actually find solid trends.

                      In the ML we have the ability to plot a graph of RPG for decades for most teams, and literally over a hundred years for some. Its not typical to find many HS records like that. Also in the ML, the competition is much more equivalent than in HS, so that skews things as well.

                      But this season will be strange in that it’ll be fairly easy to compare Ca with Fl, Tx, and Az. They all have basically the same weather, and are all hotbeds of HS baseball. So while there are undoubtedly more teams in those other states than CA has, Ca has a heck of a lot of teams and should therefore give a very solid representative example.

                      We’ll see what happens, but I’m not gonna go any further than to say I believe HRs will drop by at least 25%.
                      The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HOOAH View Post
                        … I still don't see how there will be enough bats. Sports Authority in Ca. are blowing smoke up the CIF's well you get the Idea. It will just be a wait and see till sometime in Jan.
                        Sports Authority is not the only distributor out here. I the 10 years my boy played, I didn’t by one bat there, and most of the players and parents I talk to about it don’t purchase bats there either. But we’ll see what happens. I really hope Ca pulls it off.
                        The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          how do high end BBCOR bats compare to cheap bats from lets say 5 years ago.

                          Does a 300 dollar BBCOR bat have less pop than a 60 dollar pre-testing days bat? or is is not that extreme?
                          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                            I’m not at all saying that there won’t be a reduction in runs or even a “noticeable” one, whatever that is..
                            noticeable
                            –adjective
                            1.
                            attracting notice or attention; capable of being noticed.
                            2.
                            worthy or deserving of notice or attention; noteworthy.

                            An example of a "noticeable reduction in runs scored" would be one attracting the notice or attention of this board at the conclusion the upcoming California HS baseball season. If such a thread turns out to be worthy or deserving of notice or attention, then it will probably be a long one.
                            Last edited by skipper5; 12-20-2010, 03:06 PM.
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                            • #15
                              Dominik,
                              Presumably a high end $300 BBCOR has noticeably less "pop" than a cheap BESR bat from 5 years ago; and less than a cheap pre-BESR bat from 11 years ago, when the bats had no limits.
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