Announcement

Collapse

Updated Baseball Fever Policy

Baseball Fever Policy

I. Purpose of this announcement:

This announcement describes the policies pertaining to the operation of Baseball Fever.

Baseball Fever is a moderated baseball message board which encourages and facilitates research and information exchange among fans of our national pastime. The intent of the Baseball Fever Policy is to ensure that Baseball Fever remains an extremely high quality, extremely low "noise" environment.

Baseball Fever is administrated by three principal administrators:
webmaster - Baseball Fever Owner
The Commissioner - Baseball Fever Administrator
Macker - Baseball Fever Administrator

And a group of forum specific super moderators. The role of the moderator is to keep Baseball Fever smoothly and to screen posts for compliance with our policy. The moderators are ALL volunteer positions, so please be patient and understanding of any delays you might experience in correspondence.

II. Comments about our policy:

Any suggestions on this policy may be made directly to the webmaster.

III. Acknowledgments:

This document was based on a similar policy used by SABR.

IV. Requirements for participation on Baseball Fever:

Participation on Baseball Fever is available to all baseball fans with a valid email address, as verified by the forum's automated system, which then in turn creates a single validated account. Multiple accounts by a single user are prohibited.

By registering, you agree to adhere to the policies outlined in this document and to conduct yourself accordingly. Abuse of the forum, by repeated failure to abide by these policies, will result in your access being blocked to the forum entirely.

V. Baseball Fever Netiquette:

Participants at Baseball Fever are required to adhere to these principles, which are outlined in this section.
a. All posts to Baseball Fever should be written in clear, concise English, with proper grammar and accurate spelling. The use of abbreviations should be kept to a minimum; when abbreviation is necessary, they should be either well-known (such as etc.), or explained on their first use in your post.

b. Conciseness is a key attribute of a good post.

c. Quote only the portion of a post to which you are responding.

d. Standard capitalization and punctuation make a large difference in the readability of a post. TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS is considered to be "shouting"; it is a good practice to limit use of all capitals to words which you wish to emphasize.

e. It is our policy NOT to transmit any defamatory or illegal materials.

f. Personal attacks of any type against Baseball Fever readers will not be tolerated. In these instances the post will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the personal attack via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue personal attacks will be banned from the site.

g. It is important to remember that many contextual clues available in face-to-face discussion, such as tone of voice and facial expression, are lost in the electronic forum. As a poster, try to be alert for phrasing that might be misinterpreted by your audience to be offensive; as a reader, remember to give the benefit of the doubt and not to take umbrage too easily. There are many instances in which a particular choice of words or phrasing can come across as being a personal attack where none was intended.

h. The netiquette described above (a-g) often uses the term "posts", but applies equally to Private Messages.

VI. Baseball Fever User Signature Policy

A signature is a piece of text that some members may care to have inserted at the end of ALL of their posts, a little like the closing of a letter. You can set and / or change your signature by editing your profile in the UserCP. Since it is visible on ALL your posts, the following policy must be adhered to:

Signature Composition
Font size limit: No larger than size 2 (This policy is a size 2)
Style: Bold and italics are permissible
Character limit: No more than 500 total characters
Lines: No more than 4 lines
Colors: Most colors are permissible, but those which are hard to discern against the gray background (yellow, white, pale gray) should be avoided
Images/Graphics: Allowed, but nothing larger than 20k and Content rules must be followed

Signature Content
No advertising is permitted
Nothing political or religious
Nothing obscene, vulgar, defamatory or derogatory
Links to personal blogs/websites are permissible - with the webmaster's written consent
A Link to your Baseball Fever Blog does not require written consent and is recommended
Quotes must be attributed. Non-baseball quotes are permissible as long as they are not religious or political

Please adhere to these rules when you create your signature. Failure to do so will result in a request to comply by a moderator. If you do not comply within a reasonable amount of time, the signature will be removed and / or edited by an Administrator. Baseball Fever reserves the right to edit and / or remove any or all of your signature line at any time without contacting the account holder.

VII. Appropriate and inappropriate topics for Baseball Fever:

Most concisely, the test for whether a post is appropriate for Baseball Fever is: "Does this message discuss our national pastime in an interesting manner?" This post can be direct or indirect: posing a question, asking for assistance, providing raw data or citations, or discussing and constructively critiquing existing posts. In general, a broad interpretation of "baseball related" is used.

Baseball Fever is not a promotional environment. Advertising of products, web sites, etc., whether for profit or not-for-profit, is not permitted. At the webmaster's discretion, brief one-time announcements for products or services of legitimate baseball interest and usefulness may be allowed. If advertising is posted to the site it will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the post via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue advertising will be banned from the site. If the advertising is spam-related, pornography-based, or a "visit-my-site" type post / private message, no warning at all will be provided, and the member will be banned immediately without a warning.

It is considered appropriate to post a URL to a page which specifically and directly answers a question posted on the list (for example, it would be permissible to post a link to a page containing home-road splits, even on a site which has advertising or other commercial content; however, it would not be appropriate to post the URL of the main page of the site). The site reserves the right to limit the frequency of such announcements by any individual or group.

In keeping with our test for a proper topic, posting to Baseball Fever should be treated as if you truly do care. This includes posting information that is, to the best of your knowledge, complete and accurate at the time you post. Any errors or ambiguities you catch later should be acknowledged and corrected in the thread, since Baseball Fever is sometimes considered to be a valuable reference for research information.

VIII. Role of the moderator:

When a post is submitted to Baseball Fever, it is forwarded by the server automatically and seen immediately. The moderator may:
a. Leave the thread exactly like it was submitted. This is the case 95% of the time.

b. Immediately delete the thread as inappropriate for Baseball Fever. Examples include advertising, personal attacks, or spam. This is the case 1% of the time.

c. Move the thread. If a member makes a post about the Marlins in the Yankees forum it will be moved to the appropriate forum. This is the case 3% of the time.

d. Edit the message due to an inappropriate item. This is the case 1% of the time. There have been new users who will make a wonderful post, then add to their signature line (where your name / handle appears) a tagline that is a pure advertisement. This tagline will be removed, a note will be left in the message so he/she is aware of the edit, and personal contact will be made to the poster telling them what has been edited and what actions need to be taken to prevent further edits.

The moderators perform no checks on posts to verify factual or logical accuracy. While he/she may point out gross errors in factual data in replies to the thread, the moderator does not act as an "accuracy" editor. Also moderation is not a vehicle for censorship of individuals and/or opinions, and the moderator's decisions should not be taken personally.

IX. Legal aspects of participation in Baseball Fever:

By submitting a post to Baseball Fever, you grant Baseball Fever permission to distribute your message to the forum. Other rights pertaining to the post remain with the ORIGINAL author, and you may not redistribute or retransmit any posts by any others, in whole or in part, without the express consent of the original author.

The messages appearing on Baseball Fever contain the opinions and views of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of Baseball Fever, or of the Baseball Almanac family of sites.

Sincerely,

Sean Holtz, Webmaster of Baseball Almanac & Baseball Fever
www.baseball-almanac.com | www.baseball-fever.com
"Baseball Almanac: Sharing Baseball. Sharing History."
See more
See less

What is "collapsing the back side" ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is "collapsing the back side" ?

    Sometimes I read about a swing fault called "collapsing the back side"... associated with a loopy, uppercut swing.

    Now, personally, I'm a fan of the 1-plane uppercut swing, call it loopy if you will.

    What is "collapsing the back side"? Is it a real flaw? Is it overdiagnosed? Is it a pejorative used by the "swing down to create backspin" crowd to bash the folks who uppercut? Is it just a lack of forward weight transfer?

    I mean, songtitle has this huge emphasis on the initial "move" that involves dropping the back shoulder. Can you do this (or, "how do you do this") without the dreaded back side collapse?

  • #2
    Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder. It's often the result of a hitter trying to create lift on the ball or having too long of a stride. Yes I think it is a real flaw, but I also believe , like every other mechanical flaw, is subject to being, as you put it, "over-diagnosed". The truth is, there are players in the big leagues that have a slight tilt of the front shoulder and still are able to make consistent contact. There is an exception to every rule I suppose.
    Art of Baseball

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mark Brooks View Post
      Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder. It's often the result of a hitter trying to create lift on the ball or having too long of a stride. Yes I think it is a real flaw, but I also believe , like every other mechanical flaw, is subject to being, as you put it, "over-diagnosed". The truth is, there are players in the big leagues that have a slight tilt of the front shoulder and still are able to make consistent contact. There is an exception to every rule I suppose.
      I'd like some further explanation of what you mean by this. Any decent MLBer's back shoulder is lower than the front one unless they are swinging at a pitch well up at rib/letters height.





      Comment


      • #4
        collapsing the back side
        It's a non-sensical term that doesn't mean anything. People say it when they know something is wrong, but they don't know what it is.
        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mark Brooks View Post
          Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder.
          Based on this definition, I would say there are some (efastball.com for example) who believe that what you call "collapsing the back side" is actually "the secret to hitting".

          PS -- I am not trying to initate a debate of Camp A vs. Camp B. I am just trying to understand this term to see if it is universally seen as a fault, or if whether it is considered a fault is based on hitting philosophy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bbrages View Post
            Sometimes I read about a swing fault called "collapsing the back side"... associated with a loopy, uppercut swing.

            Now, personally, I'm a fan of the 1-plane uppercut swing, call it loopy if you will.

            What is "collapsing the back side"? Is it a real flaw? Is it overdiagnosed? Is it a pejorative used by the "swing down to create backspin" crowd to bash the folks who uppercut? Is it just a lack of forward weight transfer?

            I mean, songtitle has this huge emphasis on the initial "move" that involves dropping the back shoulder. Can you do this (or, "how do you do this") without the dreaded back side collapse?
            Collapsing the backside is an overcompensation of trying to match the plane of the pitch and results in way too steep of an uppercut to the plane. Most likely the hitter is staying back too much (instead of transferring into the front side).

            Comment


            • #7
              the back shoulder being lower then the front shoulder is not what i call collapsing the back side.

              http://www.hittingacademy.com/ohalib...llapsepicx.jpg

              This is a good picture of what we are talking about. You see no major leaguers like this.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pb07bp View Post
                the back shoulder being lower then the front shoulder is not what i call collapsing the back side.

                http://www.hittingacademy.com/ohalib...llapsepicx.jpg

                This is a good picture of what we are talking about. You see no major leaguers like this.






                This might be a valid criticism if you are talking about squishing the bug being bad, but I don't think that's what they are referring to.
                Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What I identify as collapsing the back side is an early(before swing launch) drop of the back shoulder and/or hands and/or no weight transfer or even negative weight shift at swing launch causing excessive hinging of the back knee which in turn makes the swing plane steepen too much. 2 separate problems that would require different fixes, but I would call both of these collapsing the back side.
                  Last edited by bamajeff; 05-13-2011, 09:00 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Collapsing the back side occurs when the hitter does not stride to balance. What happens when a backside collapse occurs varies from hitter to hitter. Most uppercut more than they should (30-35 degrees up, rather than 5-10)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pstein View Post
                      Most uppercut more than they should (30-35 degrees up, rather than 5-10)
                      Most hitters, or most collapsers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bamajeff View Post
                        What I identify as collapsing the back side is an early(before swing launch) drop of the back shoulder and/or hands and/or no weight transfer or even negative weight shift at swing launch causing excessive hinging of the knee which in turn makes the swing plane steepen too much. 2 separate problems that would require different fixes, but I would call both of these collapsing the back side.
                        Agreed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was assuming that we were talking about a pre-swing movement. I can't argue that the back shoulder is indeed lower than the front especially when a hitter is hitting the inner half of the ball, but this is a movement that is the result out of an adjustment being made. Not nessasarily a consistent part of a swing.
                          Art of Baseball

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here's my swing:



                            it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



                            I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

                            Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Johnny89 View Post
                              Here's my swing:



                              it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



                              I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

                              Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.



                              Johnny,
                              Have you seen this "Hole in the Swing" tutorial? Might help.

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjlrLwq7qM0

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X