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What gives HS stats a bad rap?

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  • What gives HS stats a bad rap?

    Today I was checking out some things in preparation for the start of the season. One of those things was taking a look at some of the stat leaders on MaxPreps. I do that so when I get asked some kind of off the wall question at a game about nationwide stats, I at least have some idea about what’s going on.

    So, today I told MP to give a list of the players leading in the batting average category. I saw a player named Tyler Chilton from Rockingham County HS in Wentworth, NC, batting .716. That in itself wasn’t necessarily strange, but when I saw he had played 22 games, I blinked several times. ;

    So, I went to that school’s page, and the 1st thing I noticed was, the team roster only had one player. That caused a few more blinks. Curious, I checked the team’s schedule and saw they hadn’t played a game yet, and that elicited quite a few more blinks.

    The next thing I did was call the folks over at MP and pointed out what I’d seen. They checked and agreed there was something wrong, and sent an e-mail to the coach to notify him that something was amiss. Unfortunately, I find several dozen things like that every season, but most of the time what’s happened is that someone with the password to enter stats for the team, made a boo boo.

    I wouldn’t even care, but I know how they compute the numbers. FI, for batting stats, in order to be eligible to be listed, the player must have played 1/3 of the number of games the player with the most games has played. In this case its 22*.333, and that rounds to 7 games. Well, there just aren’t a lot of players in the country who have played 7 games yet. In fact, the next highest number of games played is 12, which would mean aal players with 4 games should have been eligible.

    Yeah, it ain’t very important in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn’t mean these things shouldn’t be a correct as possible.
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  • #2
    Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post

    Yeah, it ain’t very important in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn’t mean these things shouldn’t be a correct as possible.
    Primarily, "inflation" gives HS stats a bad rap.

    Because your scorekeeping is un-inflated, your players don't get a boost.

    Keep up the good work. Dishonest accounting is wrong.
    Skip

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    • #3
      Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
      Primarily, "inflation" gives HS stats a bad rap.

      Because your scorekeeping is un-inflated, your players don't get a boost.

      Keep up the good work. Dishonest accounting is wrong.
      I was always amazed at the number of high school parents who felt their son was hitting over .500....
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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      • #4
        scorekeeper,

        HS stats have a bad rap because very often they're simply bad. Inflated BA's where every error is a hit, and ultra-low ERA's where every hit is an error resulting in high run totals yet low earned run totals.

        Outside of being completely unreliable, borderline dishonest, heck they're great!
        The outcome of our children is infinitely more important than the outcome of any game they will ever play

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JJA View Post
          scorekeeper,

          HS stats have a bad rap because very often they're simply bad. Inflated BA's where every error is a hit, and ultra-low ERA's where every hit is an error resulting in high run totals yet low earned run totals.

          Outside of being completely unreliable, borderline dishonest, heck they're great!
          Going to high school All-Star meetings was always interesting....
          "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
          - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mingling A stats with AAAAA stats is ludicrous.
            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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            • #7
              Unlike football, soccer, and basketball both baseball and softball do not have paid stats keepers for every game. It would help if there were paid adult stats keepers for home games. I have always been fortunate at both places I coached to have faculty members keep the book. At my present school, and I've stated this before, we have a gentleman like scorekeeper who takes stats very seriously. In fact, as a head coach, I never even touched the book. What he ruled in his scorekeeping was the law. We also have an area website through the St. Louis Post Dispatch where every school is expected to enter stats. Everyone knows right away who pads the stats and so area coaches vote accordingly when it come post season award time.

              As long as players on the bench or some young lady who wants to be around the baseball boys keeps the stats, they will never be accurate. That is a shame becuase with many schools, they do a disservice to both their players and their opponents. JMHO!
              Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

              I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                Mingling A stats with AAAAA stats is ludicrous.
                What does this mean???
                "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                  What does this mean???
                  My GUESS is, he means mixing the different divisions. Here in Ca we have DI thru DVII, probably in his state it’s a thru AAAAA, in others it may be something different. If that’s what he means, I agree, but only to a certain point. I’d really like to see schools, or any teams for that matter, play teams who can provide fairly equal competition, but because of costs, its almost impossible to do that.

                  Over an entire HS season, there will be games where the competition is lopsided, but it happens to every team. There will also be instances where the majority of competition is very weak, but somehow in the mix there’s a superstud who’d be a superstud even against the best competition. In cases like that, of course the kid’s numbers will be off the charts.

                  But, when push comes to shove, big school, small school, good SK or bad, the numbers are simply what they are. On MaxPreps, like most other sites of that nature, you can see the numbers in many different ways. You can look at all teams and players in all states, or you can break it down by a state, section, division, or even league. Its not a function of anything other than the capability of the software used to store and display the data.

                  During the season, I look at the numbers mainly by our team, but I don’t use MaxPreps for that because what they have for stats isn’t enough for me. For MacPreps its our league, then by the division we play in, in the playoffs, which is the large schools(DI). Sometimes I’ll look at the state numbers, and once in a while at the whole country, but when I do that, its not to compare our players, its just curiosity.

                  But in the end, a HS player is a HS player. If a kid’s batting .475 or has an ERA of 0.00, I can tell you the last thing I do is ask what division he plays in, because I don’t care. I leave judging players relative to their peers, and judging who those peers are, to those who profess to be the eggspurts.
                  The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JJA View Post
                    scorekeeper,

                    HS stats have a bad rap because very often they're simply bad. Inflated BA's where every error is a hit, and ultra-low ERA's where every hit is an error resulting in high run totals yet low earned run totals.

                    Outside of being completely unreliable, borderline dishonest, heck they're great!
                    I agree they’re very often inaccurate or invalid, but I don’t believe its nearly as widespread as many people believe. I remember in LL I’d sometimes run into someone who scored every ball hit as a hit for their team, and nearly every ball hit as an error for the other team, but that’s not the case in most HS books I’ve come in contact with or looked at. So, while it for sure isn’t perfect, IMHO its gotten better, and continues to do so.
                    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                      My GUESS is, he means mixing the different divisions. Here in Ca we have DI thru DVII, probably in his state it’s a thru AAAAA, in others it may be something different. If that’s what he means, I agree, but only to a certain point. I’d really like to see schools, or any teams for that matter, play teams who can provide fairly equal competition, but because of costs, its almost impossible to do that.

                      Over an entire HS season, there will be games where the competition is lopsided, but it happens to every team. There will also be instances where the majority of competition is very weak, but somehow in the mix there’s a superstud who’d be a superstud even against the best competition. In cases like that, of course the kid’s numbers will be off the charts.

                      But, when push comes to shove, big school, small school, good SK or bad, the numbers are simply what they are. On MaxPreps, like most other sites of that nature, you can see the numbers in many different ways. You can look at all teams and players in all states, or you can break it down by a state, section, division, or even league. Its not a function of anything other than the capability of the software used to store and display the data.

                      During the season, I look at the numbers mainly by our team, but I don’t use MaxPreps for that because what they have for stats isn’t enough for me. For MacPreps its our league, then by the division we play in, in the playoffs, which is the large schools(DI). Sometimes I’ll look at the state numbers, and once in a while at the whole country, but when I do that, its not to compare our players, its just curiosity.

                      But in the end, a HS player is a HS player. If a kid’s batting .475 or has an ERA of 0.00, I can tell you the last thing I do is ask what division he plays in, because I don’t care. I leave judging players relative to their peers, and judging who those peers are, to those who profess to be the eggspurts.
                      Florida now goes through 8A.

                      http://www.fhsaa.org/sports/baseball/assignments

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If a kid’s batting .475 or has an ERA of 0.00, I can tell you the last thing I do is ask what division he plays in, because I don’t care.
                        In our state, I won't need to ask because I will know they are in a small school and are not facing 5A competition with loads of D1 commits. All of the individual stat leaders in our state are from small schools.

                        A 5A pitcher that we play against was throwing 94 mph last year, and his ERA was over 2.00. If he had been playing on a 2A team, his ERA would be near 0.00.
                        Last edited by songtitle; 02-23-2012, 07:45 AM.
                        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                          Unlike football, soccer, and basketball both baseball and softball do not have paid stats keepers for every game. It would help if there were paid adult stats keepers for home games. …
                          Heck, if I just got paid mileage, I’d do 6 games a week, and could very likely find another 50 old farts like myself who’d do the same thing. Heck, it costs me between $5 and $10 to go to each and every game. That’s certainly not going to break me, but for a lot of folks who would be glad to do it who are on a small fixed income, its asking way too much. And if the pay were mileage and just $10 a game, the number of people who’d step up would be enormous.

                          But, as long as keeping score at a HS baseball game is seen as something with little or no value, things will stay the way they are.
                          The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                            I remember in LL I’d sometimes run into someone who scored every ball hit as a hit for their team, and nearly every ball hit as an error for the other team...
                            Wouldn't this hurt your own team's decision making in the end? It might not apply as much in LL, but I think it would in higher levels.
                            WAR EAGLE!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                              Going to high school All-Star meetings was always interesting....
                              Indeed. Here is a gem from my All-State selection meeting of last season. Coaches nominate their players by writing their names on a chalkboard. We vote on them, and about half the team is easy. The final spots come down to debates. The coaches throw out stats and talk about how great their players are. So this one coach says, "He was a great contact hitter. He always put the ball in play. He only walked once," as if walking is bad. So someone asked what his batting average was. I don't remember the exact answer, but it was around .250.

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