Frustrated after attending umpire / coaches clinic for our league

[jbolt_2000]

This year our league is requiring coaches to help umpire a few games during the season to help the few veteran umps we have. We were required to attend an umpire clinic held by our district's head umpires. There were 4 head umpires there with several years experience among each.

These umpires seemed very knowledgeable and I have coached in games that some of them have called and things were fine. But after this clinic where we reviewed the rules and procedures, I left feeling frustrated and worried about what could happen during my games. I felt that there was no consistency around new rules or around judgement calls.

For example:
New bat regulations - The speakers were not sure if the new BBCOR/BPF/ LL stamp etc... applied to just 100% composite bats or any bat with composite material (e.g. 50/50 bats) or just new bats or including all old bats. We got different answers from each umpire.

Obstruction Calls - The speakers had different feeling about when to call an obstruction. One felt that it could be called if the player gets in the way of a runner even if the runner is not progressing forward and another felt that the runner would have to change direction or be forced to stop to call obstruction.

Fair Ball carried into out of play area - If a fly ball is caught and the fielder "catch & carries" into out of play then does a runner on base get one base advanced or two? The speakers could not agree. We reviewed the rule book and it appeared to say two bases, but one speaker felt that only applied if the fielder fell to the ground. If he stayed standing than they only got one base.


I can go into more detail if you want, but I thought I would just give brief examples.

But my concern is that there is no consistency. How do you handle a situation called one way in game #1 and another way in game #2?

At the end of the meeting another experienced umpire attending the clinic (not one of the speakers) came up to me and we talked for a few minutes. He said how it can be confusing and to just learn the rule book as best you can. I left telling him (half-jokingly) that if I run into any problems while I ump any games that I just tell the coaches it is a judgement call and they cannot argue my judgement. It seemed like that was the go to answer when you weren't sure about a rule anyways.

[tradosaurus]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would just inform both teams when you umpire that you will be fair as possible and may even make a bad call but you will not retract any calls.

Even when you are wrong you are right.

[jbolt_2000]

Yeah, I agree - realistically, I will be helping with minors and majors season games (Little League). I won't be umping any major impact games like TOCs or All-Stars.

One of my worries though (among others), is as a coach - I coach Juniors and some of the bat rules have been updated. What do I do when we play our first game and all correct bats are approved and then we play the next week with different umps and they interpret the rule different and don't allow half our bats. How do you rectify this when they interpret the rules differently?

[tradosaurus]

As far as the bat rules go, if it was me umpiring, I wouldn't bother investigating especially since you won't be umpiring any critical games. See no evil, hear no evil.

[jbooth]

For example:
New bat regulations - The speakers were not sure if the new BBCOR/BPF/ LL stamp etc... applied to just 100% composite bats or any bat with composite material (e.g. 50/50 bats) or just new bats or including all old bats. We got different answers from each umpire.

I don't umpire LL anymore so I can't answer this. You could call your Regional HQ to get an official answer.

Obstruction Calls - The speakers had different feeling about when to call an obstruction. One felt that it could be called if the player gets in the way of a runner even if the runner is not progressing forward and another felt that the runner would have to change direction or be forced to stop to call obstruction.

Obstruction is when a fielder who does not have the ball, or is not in the act of fielding the ball; impedes the progress of a runner. Therefore, if a runner isn't progressing toward a base you don't call obstruction. If he IS progressing, it is obstruction if he has to slow down, stop, or change direction, or is contacted and the contact impedes his progress, but contact is not necessary for an obstruction call.

The vast majority of amateur umps do not know how to implement a penalty after obstruction has occurred. See my web page for more details. http://baseball-rules.com/FAQs.htm#OBS

Fair Ball carried into out of play area - If a fly ball is caught and the fielder "catch & carries" into out of play then does a runner on base get one base advanced or two? The speakers could not agree. We reviewed the rule book and it appeared to say two bases, but one speaker felt that only applied if the fielder fell to the ground. If he stayed standing than they only got one base.

If he remains on his feet after the catch and carry into dead ball area, the ball is live and he can play on a runner. If he falls down, after the catch, all runners get ONE base. Rule 7.04b.

If he touches the ball over FAIR territory and he juggles it and does not catch it, and it goes out of play, the runners get TWO bases. Rule 7.05f.

At the end of the meeting another experienced umpire attending the clinic (not one of the speakers) came up to me and we talked for a few minutes. He said how it can be confusing and to just learn the rule book as best you can. I left telling him (half-jokingly) that if I run into any problems while I ump any games that I just tell the coaches it is a judgement call and they cannot argue my judgement. It seemed like that was the go to answer when you weren't sure about a rule anyways.

It takes a lot of effort and a lot of experience to learn the rules. And no, claiming judgment when you make an incorrect ruling isn't getting you off the hook. They CAN protest when you make an incorrect ruling.

[jbolt_2000]

I don't umpire LL anymore so I can't answer this. You could call your Regional HQ to get an official answer.

Yeah - On the LL site it says, for Juniors, any "composite barrel" must be BBCOR, but the rule book just says composite bat. If it is a BBCOR it must be a -3 only. If it is a 50/50 or Aluminum barrel then it must only meet the BPF 1.15 rating.

Obstruction is when a fielder who does not have the ball, or is not in the act of fielding the ball; impedes the progress of a runner. Therefore, if a runner isn't progressing toward a base you don't call obstruction. If he IS progressing, it is obstruction if he has to slow down, stop, or change direction, or is contacted and the contact impedes his progress, but contact is not necessary for an obstruction call.

One of the umps gave this as an example of obstruction:
Runner on Second, takes a few steps off the bag, then stops. The short stop moves the left of the runner passing the base path between the runner and second base, then continues to move in front and to the right side of the runner, passing over the base path to third, finally stopping behind the runner where he began. The ump said this was obstruction. I argued that the runner was already stopped and not moving. He said he got in the runners path and that was that. I argued if that is the case then the third baseman can never cross the base path from second to third. He said it depended on distance from the runner. I continued to disagree and stated that he had to impeded the runner or make him change direction, etc... and that is when another ump added that he agreed with me and would not have called obstruction as the first ump implied.

The vast majority of amateur umps do not know how to implement a penalty after obstruction has occurred. See my web page for more details. http://baseball-rules.com/FAQs.htm#OBS

This is good. Thanks!

If he remains on his feet after the catch and carry into dead ball area, the ball is live and he can play on a runner. If he falls down, after the catch, all runners get ONE base. Rule 7.04b.

If he touches the ball over FAIR territory and he juggles it and does not catch it, and it goes out of play, the runners get TWO bases. Rule 7.05f.

Perfect. Thanks!

It takes a lot of effort and a lot of experience to learn the rules. And no, claiming judgment when you make an incorrect ruling isn't getting you off the hook. They CAN protest when you make an incorrect ruling.

I agree. I was being sarcastic when I said this to the umpire but it was definitely the impression I got after leaving that night.

[HYP]

Yeah - On the LL site it says, for Juniors, any "composite barrel" must be BBCOR, but the rule book just says composite bat. If it is a BBCOR it must be a -3 only. If it is a 50/50 or Aluminum barrel then it must only meet the BPF 1.15 rating.



One of the umps gave this as an example of obstruction:
Runner on Second, takes a few steps off the bag, then stops. The short stop moves the left of the runner passing the base path between the runner and second base, then continues to move in front and to the right side of the runner, passing over the base path to third, finally stopping behind the runner where he began. The ump said this was obstruction. I argued that the runner was already stopped and not moving. He said he got in the runners path and that was that. I argued if that is the case then the third baseman can never cross the base path from second to third. He said it depended on distance from the runner. I continued to disagree and stated that he had to impeded the runner or make him change direction, etc... and that is when another ump added that he agreed with me and would not have called obstruction as the first ump implied.



This is good. Thanks!




Perfect. Thanks!




I agree. I was being sarcastic when I said this to the umpire but it was definitely the impression I got after leaving that night.

Bold: I agree, not obstruction. Although, I teach my base runners to run into SS. As soon as SS crosses on 3rd base side runner turns and heads toward 3rd. Making contact with SS.

Talking about umpire meetings and things they discuss. What I don't like is they always pick 1 or 2 things they are going to be critical about.

One year it is players in the dugout, they were paying so much attention to my players in the door way that they were missing easy calls but as soon as one of my players stepped in the door way they were quick to call time and yell at him to get back in the dugout. One year they were very big on calling a balk on pitchers who started with ball in throwing hand hanging down in front of them while in the stretch. They called it "gorilla" arm. It got called at least once or twice a week. Now I hear no mention of it and pitchers are still doing it. Why was it a balk before and not now?

This year I think the point they are going to harp on is hitter staying in the box. First scrimmage this year, every batter for the team we were playing was getting yelled at to stay in the box. The whole game.

My thing is, don't pick one or two things to emphasis. Just call the frickin game and get the calls as right as possible. If the umpire is so concerned about players in the dugout or staying in the box. They're missing a good game.

[jbooth]

Bold: I agree, not obstruction. Although, I teach my base runners to run into SS. As soon as SS crosses on 3rd base side runner turns and heads toward 3rd. Making contact with SS.

Good solution, sort of. Under MLB rules; that would be obstruction under rule 7.06b (obstruction without a play being made on the runner.) Under that rule, the umpire awards the base that he judges the runner would have made, if he had not been obstructed. Since it is unlikely that your runner would make third in that situation, the ump doesn't have to award a base. However, if it was ME working the game, I would award the base just to make the SS knock off the bush league crap. It's a judgment call and I would judge that he could make it. I hate HS coaches who teach stupid "tricks."

Talking about umpire meetings and things they discuss. What I don't like is they always pick 1 or 2 things they are going to be critical about.

One year it is players in the dugout, they were paying so much attention to my players in the door way that they were missing easy calls but as soon as one of my players stepped in the door way they were quick to call time and yell at him to get back in the dugout. One year they were very big on calling a balk on pitchers who started with ball in throwing hand hanging down in front of them while in the stretch. They called it "gorilla" arm. It got called at least once or twice a week. Now I hear no mention of it and pitchers are still doing it. Why was it a balk before and not now?

This year I think the point they are going to harp on is hitter staying in the box. First scrimmage this year, every batter for the team we were playing was getting yelled at to stay in the box. The whole game.

My thing is, don't pick one or two things to emphasis. Just call the frickin game and get the calls as right as possible. If the umpire is so concerned about players in the dugout or staying in the box. They're missing a good game.

While I basically agree with you, from an umpire's perspective; it would be nice if the coaches and players would simply follow the rules without having to be told all the time. Just stay in the frickin box and out of the doorway.