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  • Best Pitching Program?

    Which pitching program is the best at increasing velocity, having better control, and preventing injuries.
    And explain why. I'm going to buy a pitching program but I can't decide which one to buy.

    Should I buy Chris O'Leary's pitching dvd and website thing? It seems like the best out of the ones I've seen... What are your thoughts?

  • #2
    what age and experience are you talking about?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm 14 years old and I've played like 3-4 years. I play on my highschool's freshmen team currently and I'm trying out for a really good 14u Major team soon in the fall.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ron Wolforth's Combat Pitcher and New Athletic Pitcher. Its pretty much the gold standard that the better college and high school programs use.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Iceman View Post
          Ron Wolforth's Combat Pitcher and New Athletic Pitcher. Its pretty much the gold standard that the better college and high school programs use.
          Totally concur. Add to this Alan Jaegers long toss program and you're in good hands, the best I have seen.
          The outcome of our children is infinitely more important than the outcome of any game they will ever play

          Comment


          • #6
            What's wrong with understanding your mechanics presently in relation to your vision of where you want to be then creating your own program based on what you then find valuable in more than one person's program?

            It's all out there. It's not one size fits all in terms of benefits from one person to the next. The ability to understand who you are as a pitcher and where you want to be is invaluable. The resources are available to aid you in making the evaluations. And all of this is dynamic and a process that evolves especially as a 14 y/o.

            I'd pay for a fishing guide on a river I never fished before and had no familiarity with. However, if it's my home waters I just assume put the time and effort into being the expert.
            There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JJA View Post
              Totally concur. Add to this Alan Jaegers long toss program and you're in good hands, the best I have seen.
              It is a scientific fact that long toss does not work for pitchers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Justin97,

                Nothing else comes close!!
                Go to DrMikeMarshall.com
                !000 times more information and it’s freeeeeee! Accept the CD?

                I went there because after 40 years of throwing with the traditional centripetal mechanics in my business that my arm which had reached critical mass with many types of injuries including Bursal infection that could have killed me and yes, I said to the Dr. you mean there is actually a pitching arm injury that can kill you! He laughed and said there are many and there is insodence of death percentages with every surgery, hip replacement being the highest. All of these pitching arm and shoulder ailments have disappeared on me. I do still have the incredible loss of range of motion in my elbow and shoulder from the previous mechanics produced as a youngster. Learn this info now, you are young and it’s easy.

                I started the program on myself and gained immediate relief in malstress to my elbow and shoulder, so much so that I started pitching daily to my batting clients and at the same time added a safe cutter and slider. I ‘m close to 60 byo now and average 500 competitive throws a day with nothing other than substrate storage depletion that I recover from by the next morning.

                When I started this program after having tried all trends of that era and previous I started to add in slowly the tenets of Dr.Marshall. I started with voluntary pronation of all pitches which gave my pitchers 6 pitches 3 that move to the right and three that move to the left at 3 different speeds. I now had just eliminated 3 major elbow injuries and assisted in the relief of UCL degradation.
                When that worked we started to work on fuller rotation during the driving process that had us stay taller and rotate. This was accompanied by keeping the Humerus in line with the shoulders during the full length of the shoulders rotations. This eliminated shoulder injuries.
                When that worked we started to shorten the stride and get our preparation phase in order to work with the improve top half mechanics, so we stood at the pitchers plate like Satchel page and Sandy Koufax with the ball of you foot hanging half over the front lip of the pitchers plate with the ankle at least 30 degrees (45 preferable).
                At this time I had 30 +- pitching clients and what was nice about this system was the lesser gifted (fasttwitchers) pitchers also dominated and when they threw their lesser fastball they looked fast.
                In this first 6 year group was Mark Sanchez and Tyler Matzek (topped 98 mph) They mastered the top half mechanics. Mark was on strict Torque fastball (pronated cutter) pitches only because this pitch mimics exactly the football pronated pass by order of the good Dr. Mark already knew he was going to be a QB. Mark reached 92 MPH as a freshman, every one pulled for him to continue in baseball so he tried out made varsity and then quit 1 week later to peruse football. If he had chosen baseball we would have given him the 5 other pitches and I’m pretty sure added the resistance training starting at 16 byo he would have been in the century area.

                Dr.Marshall teaches the Crowstep pitching motion in it’s fullest context and in the past versions of the acquiesced traditional bottom half mechanics. People should always remember any tenet improvement even with the injurious traditional motion helps that percentage by area. Hence the MTS (Marshall tenet sum) predictor of injurious overhead force application.

                Justin if you need truthful answers concerning Dr.Marshalls pedagogy and results go to where this information resides, practitioners of the process.

                Frebio,

                “It is a scientific fact that long toss does not work for pitchers”
                It’s actually a scientific fact that it is and does improve velocity!!

                The exercise science has mega information on fast twitch response recruitment.
                This neural response training works with all athletes and their sports also.
                This is what long toss or better yet for pitchers maximal throwing off the mound gives you. This is how you become fast. Jaeger is performing this correct exercise even with the injurious traditional mechanics that he pushes.

                Long toss is good!! If you true Crowstep (allows your Humerus to outwardly rotate earlier) , voluntarily pronate your drive and rotate fully with lesser back bend.
                Last edited by Dirtberry; 03-12-2012, 12:01 PM.
                Primum non nocere

                Comment


                • #9
                  justin, it's important for you to read and study as much as you can, to separate the good from the uhhh.. bad.
                  efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post
                    Justin97,

                    Nothing else comes close!!
                    Go to DrMikeMarshall.com
                    !000 times more information and it’s freeeeeee! Accept the CD?

                    I went there because after 40 years of throwing with the traditional centripetal mechanics in my business that my arm which had reached critical mass with many types of injuries including Bursal infection that could have killed me and yes, I said to the Dr. you mean there is actually a pitching arm injury that can kill you! He laughed and said there are many and there is insolence of death percentages with every surgery, hip replacement being the highest. All of these pitching arm and shoulder ailments have disappeared on me. I do still have the incredible loss of range of motion in my elbow and shoulder from the previous mechanics produced as a youngster. Learn this info now, you are young and it’s easy.

                    I started the program on myself and gained immediate relief in malstress to my elbow and shoulder, so much so that I started pitching daily to my batting clients and at the same time added a safe cutter and slider. I ‘m close to 60 byo now and average 500 competitive throws a day with nothing other than substrate storage depletion that I recover from by the next morning.

                    When I started this program after having tried all trends of that era and previous I started to add in slowly the tenets of Dr.Marshall. I started with voluntary pronation of all pitches which gave my pitchers 6 pitches 3 that move to the right and three that move to the left at 3 different speeds. I now had just eliminated 3 major elbow injuries and assisted in the relief of UCL degradation.
                    When that worked we started to work on fuller rotation during the driving process that had us stay taller and rotate. This was accompanied by keeping the Humerus in line with the shoulders during the full length of the shoulders rotations. This eliminated shoulder injuries.
                    When that worked we started to shorten the stride and get our preparation phase in order to work with the improve top half mechanics, so we stood at the pitchers plate like Satchel page and Sandy Koufax with the ball of you foot hanging half over the front lip of the pitchers plate with the ankle at least 30 degrees (45 preferable).
                    At this time I had 30 +- pitching clients and what was nice about this system was the lesser gifted (fasttwitchers) pitchers also dominated and when they threw their lesser fastball they looked fast.
                    In this first 6 year group was Mark Sanchez and Tyler Matzek (topped 98 mph) They mastered the top half mechanics. Mark was on strict Torque fastball (pronated cutter) pitches only because this pitch mimics exactly the football pronated pass by order of the good Dr. Mark already knew he was going to be a QB. Mark reached 92 MPH as a freshman, every one pulled for him to continue in baseball so he tried out made varsity and then quit 1 week later to peruse football. If he had chosen baseball we would have given him the 5 other pitches and I’m pretty sure added the resistance training starting at 16 byo he would have been in the century area.

                    Dr.Marshall teaches the Crowstep pitching motion in it’s fullest context and in the past versions of the acquiesced traditional bottom half mechanics. People should always remember any tenet improvement even with the injurious traditional motion helps that percentage by area. Hence the MTS (Marshall tenet sum) predictor of injurious overhead force application.

                    Justin if you need truthful answers concerning Dr.Marshalls pedagogy and results go to where this information resides, practitioners of the process.

                    Frebio,



                    It’s actually a scientific fact that it is and does improve velocity!!

                    The exercise science has mega information on fast twitch response recruitment.
                    This neural response training works with all athletes and their sports also.
                    This is what long toss or better yet for pitchers maximal throwing off the mound gives you. This is how you become fast. Jaeger is performing this correct exercise even with the injurious traditional mechanics that he pushes.

                    Long toss is good!! If you true Crowstep (allows your Humerus to outwardly rotate earlier) , voluntarily pronate your drive and rotate fully with lesser back bend.

                    Here are some more of my thoughts on the long toss issue.

                    The arm strength issue I believe is a very weak one as studies at the American Sports Medicine Institute (ASMI) in Birmingham have shown that the non-throwing arm is just about as strong as the throwing arm. With all the long toss, if strength were an issue, then the throwing arm would be much stronger.

                    If arm strength was an issue then which arm strength muscles are stimulated while doing long toss that are not stimulated doing mound pitching?

                    But several other questions remain:

                    1. Why would a pitcher, whose release point from the mound must be one of the most refined skills is all of sports, practice a release point they will never use from the mound to produce maximum velocity with control of all pitches thrown at varying speeds and differing release points? The release point doing long toss has the pitcher's throwing arm positioned behind the line of his trunk while his head and shoulders are positioned behind his landing knee. This is considered a very weak position for a pitcher to be in at ball release from the mound. I have never seen a professional pitcher in that ball release position from the mound.


                    2. How does the arm get any more stretched out (if this is actually valuable) in long toss than it would using a maximum effort pitch from the mound?

                    3. How does the pitcher efficiently use his back leg and hip correctly to shift his weight properly into a long stride so that he completes back leg drive at the right time if he is practicing a shorter stride with less bracing action in order to throw a must longer distance? Long toss throws create a shorter stride length with less trunk flexion angle and less external shoulder rotation (arm lay back) than mound pitching.

                    All pitchers doing long toss at these distances (180 ft and more) will stride shorter than mound pitching with less bracing action because of the required backward tilt of the trunk to throw with an uphill trajectory.

                    4. How does a pitcher get the proper feel of landing on the front foot and leg as well as the correct timing of bracing action which is another sensation that must be honed and refined if they are not practicing this action from the mound?

                    5. Does the release velocity of each pitcher at these long distances equate equally to their release velocities from the mound? I doubt it very much since little is the same.

                    This means that spending time trying to produce more velocity doing long toss is futile at best.

                    I believe a study must be done where each pitcher's mechanics must be compared doing both long toss and mound pitching at game intensities. This is the only way we will find whether long toss has any benefit.

                    And yet, we will find that we are obviously comparing apples to oranges since their are few positioning or mechanical similarities between the two.

                    Simply stated long toss is the practice of throwing a long distance which has little to no value for helping produce a 60'6" throw to a defined target using various pitches at varying speeds from varying release points.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fredbio View Post
                      I believe a study must be done where each pitcher's mechanics must be compared doing both long toss and mound pitching at game intensities. This is the only way we will find whether long toss has any benefit.

                      Simply stated long toss is the practice of throwing a long distance which has little to no value for helping produce a 60'6" throw to a defined target using various pitches at varying speeds from varying release points.
                      Your first statement is correct. There is no scientific evidence, no studies that prove conclusively that long toss works, or doesn't work (your second statement). Until this happens there will be a lot of opinions both pro and against.

                      That said, I have seen Jaeger's guys in action at Pierce College many times, talked with Alan and his staff even more. That program works, the results are absolutely amazing. It's strongly recommend it to anyone, pitcher or fielder, looking to improve their arm strength. It isn't for the faint of heart as he recommends at least an hour a day of doing long toss, preferably two hours a day. But for those who put in the time, the results are really impressive. Of course this is just my opinion, but I recommend that people form their own opinion after seeing the guys in action.

                      -JJA
                      The outcome of our children is infinitely more important than the outcome of any game they will ever play

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There was no long toss in 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950, 1960, etc. in the MLB. If long toss is so important, how were pitchers able to throw 90+ and compete during that period? Plus, they threw twice as many innings as today.
                        Last edited by songtitle; 03-11-2012, 04:06 PM.
                        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So which program/instruction do you recommend?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post
                            Justin97,

                            Nothing else comes close!!
                            Go to DrMikeMarshall.com
                            !000 times more information and it’s freeeeeee! Accept the CD?

                            I went there because after 40 years of throwing with the traditional centripetal mechanics in my business that my arm which had reached critical mass with many types of injuries including Bursal infection that could have killed me and yes, I said to the Dr. you mean there is actually a pitching arm injury that can kill you! He laughed and said there are many and there is insolence of death percentages with every surgery, hip replacement being the highest. All of these pitching arm and shoulder ailments have disappeared on me. I do still have the incredible loss of range of motion in my elbow and shoulder from the previous mechanics produced as a youngster. Learn this info now, you are young and it’s easy.

                            I started the program on myself and gained immediate relief in malstress to my elbow and shoulder, so much so that I started pitching daily to my batting clients and at the same time added a safe cutter and slider. I ‘m close to 60 byo now and average 500 competitive throws a day with nothing other than substrate storage depletion that I recover from by the next morning.

                            When I started this program after having tried all trends of that era and previous I started to add in slowly the tenets of Dr.Marshall. I started with voluntary pronation of all pitches which gave my pitchers 6 pitches 3 that move to the right and three that move to the left at 3 different speeds. I now had just eliminated 3 major elbow injuries and assisted in the relief of UCL degradation.
                            When that worked we started to work on fuller rotation during the driving process that had us stay taller and rotate. This was accompanied by keeping the Humerus in line with the shoulders during the full length of the shoulders rotations. This eliminated shoulder injuries.
                            When that worked we started to shorten the stride and get our preparation phase in order to work with the improve top half mechanics, so we stood at the pitchers plate like Satchel page and Sandy Koufax with the ball of you foot hanging half over the front lip of the pitchers plate with the ankle at least 30 degrees (45 preferable).
                            At this time I had 30 +- pitching clients and what was nice about this system was the lesser gifted (fasttwitchers) pitchers also dominated and when they threw their lesser fastball they looked fast.
                            In this first 6 year group was Mark Sanchez and Tyler Matzek (topped 98 mph) They mastered the top half mechanics. Mark was on strict Torque fastball (pronated cutter) pitches only because this pitch mimics exactly the football pronated pass by order of the good Dr. Mark already knew he was going to be a QB. Mark reached 92 MPH as a freshman, every one pulled for him to continue in baseball so he tried out made varsity and then quit 1 week later to peruse football. If he had chosen baseball we would have given him the 5 other pitches and I’m pretty sure added the resistance training starting at 16 byo he would have been in the century area.

                            Dr.Marshall teaches the Crowstep pitching motion in it’s fullest context and in the past versions of the acquiesced traditional bottom half mechanics. People should always remember any tenet improvement even with the injurious traditional motion helps that percentage by area. Hence the MTS (Marshall tenet sum) predictor of injurious overhead force application.

                            Justin if you need truthful answers concerning Dr.Marshalls pedagogy and results go to where this information resides, practitioners of the process.

                            Frebio,



                            It’s actually a scientific fact that it is and does improve velocity!!

                            The exercise science has mega information on fast twitch response recruitment.
                            This neural response training works with all athletes and their sports also.
                            This is what long toss or better yet for pitchers maximal throwing off the mound gives you. This is how you become fast. Jaeger is performing this correct exercise even with the injurious traditional mechanics that he pushes.

                            Long toss is good!! If you true Crowstep (allows your Humerus to outwardly rotate earlier) , voluntarily pronate your drive and rotate fully with lesser back bend.



                            Does Dr. Mike Marshall's instruction also help increase speed? I know it takes stress and pain off the arm but I heard that it can stop you from throwing "max" velocity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Iceman View Post
                              Ron Wolforth's Combat Pitcher and New Athletic Pitcher. Its pretty much the gold standard that the better college and high school programs use.
                              Seconded. The New Athletic Pitcher is excellent. Additionally, I think that TopVelocity/Brent Pourciau's 3x pitching materials are very good, especially for fast twitch/athletic-type pitchers.

                              Comment

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