A little swing help, please ...

[TouchemAll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpa5s98ST5Y

Please take a look at this swing and offer some advice on the following ...

1. Is there a drill to get him to load/trigger? When do you load/trigger? When the pitcher's hands break, or when? And we -- he and I both -- don't want him to stride. He's very comfortable with a no-stride swing, but we -- he and I both -- would like him to incorporate a better load/trigger.

2. Is there a drill to keep his head from collapsing on the ball without affecting his ability to track the ball? He tracks the ball extremely well, and we don't want anything to change that. But I think his head needs to be a little more still at contact. Your thoughts?

Any other advice is appreciated as well, but those are the main two areas we're seeking help with right now. He just turned 8, so I don't want to overload his mind/overcomplicate things to the point that he loses his natural instincts and loses confidence.

Anyway, any advice is welcome. Thanks. And good luck to all of you in your baseball endeavors.

[dominik]

If he tracks the ball fine I would leave his head alone. tell him to keep the head quiet but as long as he is making contact that should be fine.

the load must come from the coiling hips. have him counter rotate his hips as he strides. this will also load the hands and create separation if he then reverses the coil powerfully. but get him to coil first.

[songtitle]

1. He should stride/coil on every pitch. He only moves on the last pitch.

2. His stance is the same position that he should be in at toe touch (after the stride). His feet are spread and his back elbow is up, and his hands are back.

Has someone taught him not to stride? This is OK to do for a drill, but not in real life.

3. It seems like he spins his shoulders around, when he should drop his back shoulder.

Here is Chipper from toe touch to hip touch. Notice how he begins by driving his back elbow and shoulder down together.

[TouchemAll]

Thanks for the replies.

Songtitle: Yeah, he's always used a no-stride swing. Was taught and learned to hit like that from the start. I really like the no-stride approach, and there are guys in the major leagues who don't stride. They load, but they don't stride, and that's what I and my son are looking to find for him -- a consistent way to load in the no-stride approach that doesn't throw everything off so he can generate more power. He makes great contact (has only struck out once through his first eight games this year and less than 20 times in three years playing kid pitch) and hits for a high average. But he and I would like him to have more power.

Dominik: Coiling the hips, I think, might be what we're looking for. Some folks have mentioned maybe lifting his front heel off the ground to coil and load. That wouldn't get him out of his no-stride approach, but it would help him load. My question is, when would you do that? When would you load? When the pitcher breaks his hands, or when?

Again, my son just turned 8. He's been playing 9U/10U kid pitch since he turned 5. I certainly don't want to overload his mind/overcomplicate things to the point that he loses his natural instincts and loses confidence.

Thanks again.

[songtitle]

there are guys in the major leagues who don't stride

Who are they?

But he and I would like him to have more power.

Yet, someone told him not to shift his weight, and stride.

I certainly don't want to overload his mind/overcomplicate things to the point that he loses his natural instincts

Yet, someone told him not to use his natural stride.

I know it sounds like I'm being a jerk (no jokes please), but I am just trying to get you to think this through and question everything that people tell you about hitting.

Your first question was...

Is there a drill to get him to load/trigger?

The 'drill' is the stride/load.

The 'no stride' advice for young kids is often given by well meaning youth coaches, and has many, many unintended consequences.

The youth coach gets a season of contact hitting, and the kid gets a lifetime of mediocre hitting.

[CoolHandLuke]

The most glaring issue is that he isn't loading on every pitch. Actually I don't think he loaded on any pitch including the one he hit. He should be loaded and coming down to toe touch at pitcher's release point.

Personally I don't like no-stride swings at young ages. I actually encourage exaggerated pre-swing moves to help them fully understand the key components of the swing. A strong load and complete weight shift during the swing. Kids that no-stride almost always keep their weight on their back leg during the swing and don't achieve proper weight shift.

As far as his spine angle, I wouldn't tell him to drop his back shoulder. That cue puts too much emphasis on the shoulders and tends to cause a top-down swing, where he is triggering the swing with his shoulders as opposed to his hips. Instead tell him to lead with the hips and emphasize that the hips should be the most forward point on this body during the swing. I like the cue "head/shoulders back, hips forward". It's crucial that the hitter initiates weight shift first, then rotation. A batter that looks like he's spinning in place is a result of inadequate weight shift. Basically a top-down swing triggered by shoulders and no weight shift.

[tradosaurus]

Who are they?

Yet, someone told him not to shift his weight, and stride.

Yet, someone told him not to use his natural stride.

I know it sounds like I'm being a jerk (no jokes please), but I am just trying to get you to think this through and question everything that people tell you about hitting.

Your first question was...

The 'drill' is the stride/load.

The 'no stride' advice for young kids is often given by well meaning youth coaches, and has many, many unintended consequences.

The youth coach gets a season of contact hitting, and the kid gets a lifetime of mediocre hitting.

Who are they with no stride in the MLB? Your kidding right?

Try Albert Pujols for one.

[songtitle]

Who are they with no stride in the MLB? Your kidding right?

Try Albert Pujols for one.

Ok, lets try it. What is Albert doing in frames 1-7?


This is how baseball voodoo starts.

[CoolHandLuke]

Albert Pujols is a grown man who fully understands how his body generates power in the swing. And he's 99th percentile in leg/trunk strength which enable him to generate power with that swing. A young hitter needs to learn where power/torque is generated, weight-shift. Young kids aren't strong enough to perform an effective weight shift by just flipping a heel like Pujols. Pujols has a no-stride, but he has complete weight shift. Every kid I have seen with a no-stride swing also has a no-shift swing.

The worse thing to do is have young hitters emulate big, powerful mlb sluggers. You're much better off picking the best and smallest mlb player for your kids to emulate. Dustin Pedroia for example. These little guys are much more efficient at generating power because they have to be. They wouldn't be able to compete with much bigger, stronger players if they didn't squeeze out every bit of power and efficiency from their body. Same for pitchers.

[mudvnine]

This is how baseball voodoo starts.

Only "baseball voodoo" is when one tries to fit all sizes of feet into the same size shoe.....

Striding is optional, weight transfer is not.

EDIT:
TouchemAll,

Here's a short little video that will help you get started (sorry about the volume being a bit low).......

EDIT #2: (Changed my mind, I don't like that video.....suffice it to say, your son needs to get "weight transfer back". I'll try to explain below, without video unfortunately.)

The first "absolute" is weight transfer back, this is accomplished by rotating the pelvis rearward (towards the catcher), around the rear leg. "Around" is the key word in that sentence, as simply "backwards" or "into" the rear leg will not get you (your son) the proper "coil" that he so needs, and that Dom is talking about above.

Now while many/most hitters do this while lifting their lead leg for ease of movement, and thus create the subsequent stride......that they use as a timing mechanism to delay their weight transfer forward until they begin their actual swing (Shift AND Swing vs. Shift THEN Swing)......it is not mandatory or an absolute that the actual lead foot/leg leave the ground and/or move forward as some will try to make you believe.

Here is a hitter that does the "weight transfer back", but never strides in the process (he delays his shift forward differently)....



So yes, be careful of the "voodoo" that some do-do so well around here.

[dominik]

Also note that the coil should be relatively late.

you cannot hold coil. in the best case the hips go dynamically from coil to uncoil just like a tennis players backswings and then immediately swings (this is stronger than a pause because of the stretch reflex of the muscles).

of course there might be some offspeed pitches were you have to hold that coil a little but usually the coil should go smoothly into the uncoil.

[songtitle]

I guess you can find a former player that does just about anything.


Voodoo alert at defcon4 today.:sun:

Surely there must be hundreds of current MLB players that don't stride.

[TouchemAll]

Mudvnine ... I like where you're going. But when should my son load/coil? When the pitcher breaks his hands?

Funny you put up Jim Edmonds there. I've been looking at a lot of video of him batting, and I think that's somewhat the direction my son needs to head. But I don't think he needs to incorporate as much movement as Edmonds has right away at age 8. Again, I just don't want my son to think we're "retooling" his swing at age 8.

I think my son's swing has some solid elements, he's very comfortable with where he's at now and he's seeing good results. I don't want to break his confidence due to him not being able to understand a lot of movement at age 8. But maybe he can start out with lifting the front heel like Edmonds to get some more weight back and shifted forward before he swings. But, my question again, is when should he lift the front heel/load? When the pitcher breaks his hands, or when?

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. You guys are great.

[mudvnine]

Surely there must be hundreds of current MLB players that don't stride.

You confuse (or don't understand) "style" with "mechanics".

"Cookie cutter" instruction is about the worst possible instruction out there for a developing hitter.

Why does the number of hitters doing something matter? It either works for a hitter or it doesn't.

TouchemAll's son does not have a "stride" problem (style), but rather a "weight transfer" problem (mechanics).

I guess you can find a former player that does just about anything.


Voodoo alert at defcon4 today.

Yep, you proved it.....you don't understand "style" vs. "mechanics" by posting that picture.

Keep typing though, it helps separate the wheat from the chaff.

[tradosaurus]

One thing I've learned from watching countless youtube videos of MLB hitter swing analysis (which I guess makes me an expert in this field :cap is that the pre-swing is unique to each individual for comfort level and timing the pitch. Pre-swing meaning everything up to the rotation of the hips.

However once the the hip start rotating the majority of MLB hitters look similar.

I am teaching my son to personalize his pre-swing for his comfort level.