How to balance a team with competitive players and recreational players?

[jbolt_2000]

I am coaching another LL Juniors team this year and it is the first time in 6 years that I find several kids just flat out not wanting to play. I am carrying 14 players and there is a 2 inning play rule in LL. There are three players that just don't try and don't seem to care. One even told me that the only reason he is out there is because his mom is making him and that he would rather be playing Modern Warfare. The other two (brothers) have only been to handful of practices and when they show up they are late. I tell them to hustle with the team and they just look at me and continue on their way. Their excuse has been that they were playing school basketball. Now that is over and they showed up late yesterday. I asked them what happened and they said they had track & field practice.

On top of that - all three kids are the least athletic of the team and know the least about baseball. I find I'm having to teach them the basic fundamentals where the other players are ready for more advanced learning.

All of the others players, while having different abilities, have shown interest and want to play and expressed the desire to win TOCs this year.

Furthermore - I have a player from last year who got cut from his H.S. team and wants to come back and play for me. He wasn't the greatest player, but definitely better than all three of these kids. This would make 15 players but I would not be forced to follow the minimum playing rule. I hate not playing a kid, but part of me feels that they just don't care anyways.

What do you do to balance these players with the ones that want to play and get better? How do you handle playing time? I know on a TB team you just tell them to go find another sport and cut them from the team or don't play them until they show desire. But at this point (at least until the other kid comes back) I have to play them at least two innings each.

Any advise?

[songtitle]

Play them 2 innings. Relax and enjoy them. All of them.

[Standballdad]

I am coaching another LL Juniors team this year and it is the first time in 6 years that I find several kids just flat out not wanting to play. I am carrying 14 players and there is a 2 inning play rule in LL. There are three players that just don't try and don't seem to care. One even told me that the only reason he is out there is because his mom is making him and that he would rather be playing Modern Warfare. The other two (brothers) have only been to handful of practices and when they show up they are late. I tell them to hustle with the team and they just look at me and continue on their way. Their excuse has been that they were playing school basketball. Now that is over and they showed up late yesterday. I asked them what happened and they said they had track & field practice.

On top of that - all three kids are the least athletic of the team and know the least about baseball. I find I'm having to teach them the basic fundamentals where the other players are ready for more advanced learning.

All of the others players, while having different abilities, have shown interest and want to play and expressed the desire to win TOCs this year.

Furthermore - I have a player from last year who got cut from his H.S. team and wants to come back and play for me. He wasn't the greatest player, but definitely better than all three of these kids. This would make 15 players but I would not be forced to follow the minimum playing rule. I hate not playing a kid, but part of me feels that they just don't care anyways.

What do you do to balance these players with the ones that want to play and get better? How do you handle playing time? I know on a TB team you just tell them to go find another sport and cut them from the team or don't play them until they show desire. But at this point (at least until the other kid comes back) I have to play them at least two innings each.

Any advise?

I too am coaching a Jrs team. I have a mix bag of TB kids and Rec kids. The TB kids are only here for the extra Reps and to play with their friends. The TB kids have taken a leadership role to help and encourage the other kids. I am not here to win all the games but if I get to TOC it's extra. My practice are focused on basic fundamentals and providing lots of Reps in the field and batting. This will benefit all the kids. I make every player sit at least 1 inning if not 2. So far the kids are enjoying it and even more important the parents seem to be as well. You need to treat Rec ball for what it is. It supports the community and the kids can just play.

[jbolt_2000]

This is where I am struggling though. I have never had an issue with playing time (i.e. never had parents complain about it) and winning was just a bonus to learning the game the right way and playing hard. I guess i am struggling this year because all of the returning players really want to make it to TOCs this year (they made it last year) but some of the new kids don't care.

I want to keep it fun and recreational as it relates to Little League, but I also want to do my best as a coach to help those returning players to finish off their LL career on a high note before heading off to high school.

I almost feel like, "why worry about playing time for those kids that don't care". But I hate having that feeling and wish there was something i could do to help bring that passion into the game like I have and my returning players.

[Standballdad]

This is where I am struggling though. I have never had an issue with playing time (i.e. never had parents complain about it) and winning was just a bonus to learning the game the right way and playing hard. I guess i am struggling this year because all of the returning players really want to make it to TOCs this year (they made it last year) but some of the new kids don't care.

I want to keep it fun and recreational as it relates to Little League, but I also want to do my best as a coach to help those returning players to finish off their LL career on a high note before heading off to high school.

I almost feel like, "why worry about playing time for those kids that don't care". But I hate having that feeling and wish there was something i could do to help bring that passion into the game like I have and my returning players.

I hear what you are saying. I kinda of mentioned this in my first post. I took the TB kids aside (one was my son) and explained to them that they already were way ahead of the other kids on this team because of TB. Told them that they needed to be leaders and should help the other kids as much as possible and that by teaching the kids the game it also helps themselves. Also told them no matter how bad the other kid is, you need to embrace them and encourage them. This can only help our team in the long run. The funny thing is, is that winning and having fun becomes contagious. Hope this helps and like someone else said, just enjoy the moment. This will probably be my last year doing this so I am having a blast with these kids and also the dads that are helping me.

[themaker75]

These kids are old enough that if they don't are you shouldn't care. Don't spend a second worrying about the kids who don't care spend ur time worrying about the kids who do care and erring them to where they want to be. Baseball is not like lets basketball. A kid in basketball that doesn't care you can Atleast try to get hustle, rebounds, steals out of him if his basketball skills and attitude aren't there right away. Baseball is a sport of failure. If your skills aren't there and ur attitude is crap even hustle will not help your team. If you don't care enough to know how to swing the bat you aren't gonna even put the ball in play. Those kids are just taking at bats away from the players who care. Play them the two inning and hope they quit. This isn't ur chance to have a movie made after you about how you turned these bad attitude slackers into champions. That's their parents job. It's a defect they brought from home to ur baseball field. You have been given a team. Run proper practices, do a good job and win because every kid that cares wants to win. Winning shows them that their hard work has paid off.

[Standballdad]

These kids are old enough that if they don't are you shouldn't care. Don't spend a second worrying about the kids who don't care spend ur time worrying about the kids who do care and erring them to where they want to be. Baseball is not like lets basketball. A kid in basketball that doesn't care you can Atleast try to get hustle, rebounds, steals out of him if his basketball skills and attitude aren't there right away. Baseball is a sport of failure. If your skills aren't there and ur attitude is crap even hustle will not help your team. If you don't care enough to know how to swing the bat you aren't gonna even put the ball in play. Those kids are just taking at bats away from the players who care. Play them the two inning and hope they quit. This isn't ur chance to have a movie made after you about how you turned these bad attitude slackers into champions. That's their parents job. It's a defect they brought from home to ur baseball field. You have been given a team. Run proper practices, do a good job and win because every kid that cares wants to win. Winning shows them that their hard work has paid off.

Really, this is a recreational league. Parents sign there kids up to play baseball to give them something constructive to do. Kids do not always know what is best for them, that's why they have parents. If this is the attitude of a Rec coach then he should not be coaching Rec baseball and go find a TB team to coach. How many times have you heard someone say "I wish my parents made me play (any sport) when I was a kid"

[mellowthunder]

I think we are lumping two different types of players in the same group here. The OP was referring to players that don't want to be there, that don't hustle and pretty much are a bad example for the other players. And then you have the players that are not as talented or players that have not played ball before but do try hard and want to get better. They are two totally different sets of kids. We have both types of kids in our league. The kids that are new or not as talented are not the problem, it's the kids with the bad attitude that are. I don't think there is necessarily a right way. Some coaches take the approach by just letting them be and hoping that it doesn't affect the moral of the other players and other will apply more disciplinary action like making them do laps or sitting them on the bench. What we do in our little league is rotate players every inning and focus on development the first half of the season. The second half of the season becomes more competitive and players won't rotate as much. We strive for equal amount of playing time as long as you show that you want to play. But if you're not hustling or not paying attention on the field, you will end up sitting on the bench more than players that want to play. Of course politics will also affect how the coach handles a situation. I've seen a coach let a kid do whatever he wants because the kid's dad happens to be the coaches lawyer. Life can be complicated. :-)

[Standballdad]

I think we are lumping two different types of players in the same group here. The OP was referring to players that don't want to be there, that don't hustle and pretty much are a bad example for the other players. And then you have the players that are not as talented or players that have not played ball before but do try hard and want to get better. They are two totally different sets of kids. We have both types of kids in our league. The kids that are new or not as talented are not the problem, it's the kids with the bad attitude that are. I don't think there is necessarily a right way. Some coaches take the approach by just letting them be and hoping that it doesn't affect the moral of the other players and other will apply more disciplinary action like making them do laps or sitting them on the bench. What we do in our little league is rotate players every inning and focus on development the first half of the season. The second half of the season becomes more competitive and players won't rotate as much. We strive for equal amount of playing time as long as you show that you want to play. But if you're not hustling or not paying attention on the field, you will end up sitting on the bench more than players that want to play. Of course politics will also affect how the coach handles a situation. I've seen a coach let a kid do whatever he wants because the kid's dad happens to be the coaches lawyer. Life can be complicated. :-)

Understand your point, I am not that quick to give up on any of my players regardless of their attitude. As a Rec youth coach I do not have any expectations of my players, I take what I am given and do the best I can to mke it a positive experience for all. Like I said earlier,if you do not want to deal with these types of players, go coach a more competitive team where the kids want to be there in the first place.

[themaker75]

I don't know exactly how old these kids are but I still stand by my statement. This isn't an Edward James almos movie. The guy is probably coaching to spend more time with his son. There are three kids there that don't care coz their parents need extra time to go shopping or go to yoga class. His number one priority should be making a winning team where kids learn about what it means to be part of a team. Get better and hopefully win. Being part of a team means you pull your weight or you wind up an outcast. Those three kids woul require 5x the attention to not even produce 1/5 of the results and that is totally unfair too the team. And I'm talking attitude not skills because any well raised talented kid will appreciate a kid hustling and trying even if they get out at bat after at bat.
I would tell Johnys parents he is not trying and you think he could try harder. If nothing happens you can't change a childhood of bad child rearing.

[Standballdad]

I don't know exactly how old these kids are but I still stand by my statement. This isn't an Edward James almos movie. The guy is probably coaching to spend more time with his son. There are three kids there that don't care coz their parents need extra time to go shopping or go to yoga class. His number one priority should be making a winning team where kids learn about what it means to be part of a team. Get better and hopefully win. Being part of a team means you pull your weight or you wind up an outcast. Those three kids woul require 5x the attention to not even produce 1/5 of the results and that is totally unfair too the team. And I'm talking attitude not skills because any well raised talented kid will appreciate a kid hustling and trying even if they get out at bat after at bat.
I would tell Johnys parents he is not trying and you think he could try harder. If nothing happens you can't change a childhood of bad child rearing.

All I'm sayin is most rec teams always have these types of kids on the team. You can either give up on them or continue to try and work with them. I choose the latter.

[tg643]

Regardless of who you're coaching, you coach baseball. You coach your style. You don't dumb it down. With minimum play requirements if kids aren't with the program mentally, they don't get more than minimum playing time. When I coached LL Majors all my players played at least three innings except the one kid who skipped practices and was late for pregame. His mother eventually pulled him from the team and wrote Wiliamsport I was a monster and killed his desire for the game. Williamsport called our president. When he expained their response was, "No problem here."

[pthawaii]

Regardless of who you're coaching, you coach baseball. You coach your style. You don't dumb it down. With minimum play requirements if kids aren't with the program mentally, they don't get more than minimum playing time. When I coached LL Majors all my players played at least three innings except the one kid who skipped practices and was late for pregame. His mother eventually pulled him from the team and wrote Wiliamsport I was a monster and killed his desire for the game. Williamsport called our president. When he expained their response was, "No problem here."

What's sad sometimes is the parents muck it for the kid. That is, the parent doesn't prioritize practice and pregame, and so the kid doesn't and it just goes downhill from there.

[jbolt_2000]

I don't know exactly how old these kids are but I still stand by my statement. This isn't an Edward James almos movie. The guy is probably coaching to spend more time with his son. There are three kids there that don't care coz their parents need extra time to go shopping or go to yoga class. His number one priority should be making a winning team where kids learn about what it means to be part of a team. Get better and hopefully win. Being part of a team means you pull your weight or you wind up an outcast. Those three kids woul require 5x the attention to not even produce 1/5 of the results and that is totally unfair too the team. And I'm talking attitude not skills because any well raised talented kid will appreciate a kid hustling and trying even if they get out at bat after at bat.
I would tell Johnys parents he is not trying and you think he could try harder. If nothing happens you can't change a childhood of bad child rearing.

I'll give a little more background to my specific situation:

My son is not playing on this team. Last year was his last. We made it to TOCs last year, where we play the other league champions and compete for the District Banner. We lost 4 games into it and only had two to go for the championship. The returning players (and parents) asked that I come back and they said they wanted to win TOCs after having tasted it last year. Several of these players have played for me in the past and in two cases, have played for me every year for the last 6 years.

This age group is LL Juniors. They are 13-14 years old with a couple of 15 y.o. (we don't have a Senior division). One of the 15 year olds is starting next week, as he was just cut from the Freshman team.

One of the kids that doesn't care is only playing because his mom is making him. He told me this directly! His mom explained that he had a bad experience in basketball 5 years ago and hasn't played any sports since and she wanted him doing something to get away from video games. The other two kids (brothers), I still haven't quite figured out. Sometimes they seem to be engaged in what we are doing and other times they act like I'm asking them to wash dishes instead of play baseball.


For those players that are less talented but have heart - I will coach them til I'm blue in the face. I love coaching those types of players. I also love coaching the talented ones that you give instruction to and they just do it. I have a hard time committing to the kids that dont want to be there. And I have an even harder time figuring out how to balance "just go play for 2 hours and go back to video games when you get home" and "lets do our best and learn as much as we can so we can be the best team we can be."

[jbolt_2000]

Regardless of who you're coaching, you coach baseball. You coach your style. You don't dumb it down. With minimum play requirements if kids aren't with the program mentally, they don't get more than minimum playing time. When I coached LL Majors all my players played at least three innings except the one kid who skipped practices and was late for pregame. His mother eventually pulled him from the team and wrote Wiliamsport I was a monster and killed his desire for the game. Williamsport called our president. When he expained their response was, "No problem here."

This is basically the approach I am taking. I am finding however, that I have to "dumb it down" a little for a couple players. They just do not know the rules or how to play. For the one that hasn't played in 5 years. I have to teach him how to run the bases. I had to explain to him what a strike zone was and that he didn't have to swing at a ball that was not hittable. This is what I go through with my Farm players (6,7,8 y.o.).


Anyways, I had practice last night and I explained to everyone on the team that playing time is going to be earned. If you don't care to put the effort in during practices or games, then you will not get much more than the minimum. If you give it 100%, regardless of results, then you will earn more playing time. I told them to make it hard for me to figure out playing time. If you don't try, then its easy, you don't play.

Hopefully, I've gotten through to them a little.